Are the dead already judged?

Question

In Luke 16:22-24 we read

The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

in which Jesus supports the notion that people go to Heaven or Hell soon after their death, what is reinforced in Luke 23:43

And Jesus said to him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Then the Apostles Creed of the Catholic Church says

He descended into hell; on the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from there He will come to judge the living and the dead.

Which suggests, on the contrary, that the judgment and destiny of the dead is pending until the second coming, which also contradicts the promise of “being in Paradise on the same day,” since Jesus spent the next three days in Hell.

But the Catholic Church routinely invokes the intercession of saints in its prayers, starting with Mary herself

Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death. 

So, if the dead are already in Heaven or Hell, it means that they have already been judged, so who are left to be resurrected and judged?

When are the dead judged?

Answer 1

There is no difference between the Catholic view and the (usual) Protestant view as to when we are judged. We are first judged as soon as we die. Our soul is judged then. On the Day of Resurrection, the last day, our bodies will be re-united with our souls and we shall face the final Day of Judgement, which will confirm the previous judgement.

Answer 2

Understanding what "the intercession of saints" means requires (first) knowing who the saints are, and (second) what intercessory prayers are all about. A Catholic Encyclopedia I have has nearly 5 pages delving into the matter; who they are in Catholicism, (e.g. martyrs, confessors, ascetics, holy people). It also deals with their veneration, their canonization, and that (non-saintly?) Catholics are to supplicate them, to ask the saints to intercede on behalf of their loved ones, particularly after death. The Protestant view is that every Christian is a saint, and that once a person has died, the time for praying for them has passed. But the Protestant view is not sought.

The Catholic view certainly gives rise to the question, "If the dead are already in Heaven or Hell, have they already been judged?" Logically, if that is the case, what would be the point in the saints interceding on behalf of the dead? Will their intercessions modify outcomes on the final Day of Resurrection and Judgment which is still future? This is no doubt where the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory comes in, but that is not the question.

Clarity may come regarding either one, or two judgments from what the Bible says about various books in heaven being opened at a particular time - at the Last Day, the Day of Resurrection and Judgment, when resurrection bodies will be given to 'clothe' the spirits/souls of the dead who have died. Every single person who has ever died will then be enabled to stand before the Great Judgment Throne in heaven. Then the final pronouncement of their individual judgment will be heard by them. Books will be opened, recording all the deeds everyone ever did. That record already exists in those books, for all those who are now dead. God knows already what every person has done and that is why they either find themselves in bliss, in a paradise state at the moment of death, or suffering torments, separated from bliss by an uncrossable chasm. That is what the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is all about.

Daniel 12:1 mentions a Book of Life. Revelation 21:27 says the resurrected dead are judged according to their deeds as recorded in various books, then the Book of Life is opened, and if their names are not found in it, they are cast into the burning lake of sulphuric fire.

When Revelation 21:27 then speaks of those who are brought into the heavenly New Jerusalem, they are contrasted favourably with those who are kept out. Those who are welcomed in are "they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." This means that the Book of Life here is synonymous with the Book of Life in Daniel. But the other books wherein peoples' deeds are recorded are different record-books. Depending on what their deeds in this life were, their names will either be written in the Lamb's Book of Life, or not. Once a person has died, and they can do no more deeds, then their names will either already be in the Book of Life, or they will not.

The Last Day Judgment is to let everyone know what God's judgment is. The record of their deeds is not for God's benefit, but to show all mankind that his judgments are just and true. So, the answer from the Bible is that, Yes, they are already judged at the point when they die physically. They get to know why they have been so judged at the Last Day. And, due to the records of their activity, nobody will be able to try to argue their case or to answer back.

Answer 3

There is a sense that one is already judged at death and there is a sense that their will be an official jugdement - a set day fo judgement, whether it is the white throne judgement (Rev.20:11) or the judgement Seat of Christ.Rom.14:10; 2Cor.5:10

Let me explain.....

The first judgement is the evidence for the official one as I summarised above. If you like, we can say that the first one is the foretaste of the official judgement.

“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” (Jhn 3:18, KJV)

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (Jhn 3:36, KJV)

In Jn.3:18, we see a sense in which judgement has been set in motion by a current judgemnet. The current judgement are two folds and they are: He that believeth on him... and he that believeth not....

The choice of the individual at death is a judgement set by himself and endorsed by God and sets up the official day of judgements. The first judgement set up by the illumination of the individual cannot be overturned before the official one.

“And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.” (Luk 23:42-43, KJV)

The good thief's choice was 'endorsed' by Jesus and the evidence that he will be saved from wrath to come is... to day shalt thou be with me in paradise. In a sense, judgement has been pronounced on him by Jesus and his position after death serves as his evidence that assures him that he will resuurect unto everlasting life.

The good thief in paradise is not his final judgement but he is having a foretaste or evidence of the final judgement. In a sense, it assures him that he is fine and all will be well eventually on the basis of his current state.

“But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.” (Luk 16:25, KJV)

Jesus did not tell us if this is the final judgement (the official judgements as I highlight in my first statement). However, Abraham's comment gives a clue that portends that this scene is a foretaste of the final. Abaraham used the word 'comforted' for lazarus. Comfort is some temprorary respite before total dileverance. This gives me an impression that vs 25 is a foretaste judgement. If scene in vs 25 is temporary for Lazarus, it is equally the same for the rich man.

The final decision of both at death set the motion for the final judgement.

Let me address the catholic quote you gave in the OP.

As far as I know, there is no scripture that teaches that what I call 'foretaste judgement' can be upturned by Mary the Mother of God.

If Mary's prayer or intercession can upturn the future/final judgement of a sinner after death, then vice visa will be possible by someone somewhere in the world of the dead!

The questions to further ask is this:

• What exactly is Mary trying to achieve in her intercession for the sinner who dies without salvation?
• If an individual died in salvation by grace alone, what would be the effect of her prayer for such?
• Will praying for these individuals improve there chances in anticipation of the final judgements?

Let me throw in a spanner here:

“Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.” (Jon 2:1-2, KJV)

When did Jonah prayed to God? Was it when he was about to die or after he died because we know he was in the belly of the whale for three days and three night? Could he be breathing during these three days?

Whatever the time Jonah prayed to God to be alive, the clear truth about this scene is that Jonah was already saved. His being in the belly of the whale is not predicated on his salvation which he already had but on his act of disobedience to run errand for God. Jonah was already saved for he would not be a prophet of God if he was not saved.

Hence, Jonah's prayer was not predicated on salvation. He was not trying to upturn or improve his own salvation but opportunity to obey God and run His errand.

Conclusion:

There is no evidence in the scriptures that teaches that intercession for oneself or by someone after death can improve or upturn the chances of salvation for the dead. The rich man interceded for himself (Lk.16:24) but all to no avail.

Hence, I doubt if Mary the mother of God's intercession does anything for any one who is dead. Mary would have a great job interceding for so many millions of sinners of all ages. It's hard work that produces no result.

Answer 4

No they are not judged, there is only one judgment which happens at the end of the age. The story of the rich man and Lazarus are applied to show us that there are temporary holding places for the righteous and the wicked. The righteous go to paradise or Abraham's bosom while the wicked go to Hades. Jesus prophesied to the thief on the right and told him that he will be at Abraham's bosom for his repentance.

Luke 23

one of the thieves crucified next to Jesus says, “‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’ Jesus answered him, ‘I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise’’’

Paradise is not heaven, the saints are held here(a temporary waiting place) and they get to access heaven after Jesus Christ returns. This is because Jesus returns to bring judgment to both the living and the dead