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Relative to research I'm doing, I wanted to pick the brains of the community at large and see if anyone had an answer to a question.

Josephus states that Pompey took Jerusalem in the third month (Sivan) of 63 BCE during the solemn fast. He then later states that Herod captured Jerusalem in the third month, on the same day, also on the solemn fast, in 37 BCE.

Taken by Pompey: [...] the city was taken on the third month, on the day of the fast, upon the hundred and seventy-ninth olympiad, when Caius Antonius and Marcus Tullius Cicero were consuls [...]. (Joseph. AJ 14.66)

Taken by Herod: This destruction befell the city of Jerusalem when Marcus Agrippa and Caninius Gallus were consuls at Rome, on the hundred and eighty-fifth olympiad, on the third month, on the solemnity of the fast, as if a periodical revolution of calamities had returned since that which befell the Jews under Pompey; for the Jews were taken by him on the same day [...]. (Joseph. AJ 14.487-88)

To head certain responses off at the pass, Josephus did not say that it was the Day of Atonement (Joseph. AJ 14.66, 487) as some are wont to suggest. In a careful examination of both instances, that of Pompey and Herod, you will find, first, that Pompey started his war with the Jews in the spring (Joseph. AJ 14.38). It was a three-month siege that ended in the “third month,” on a day of fasting (Joseph. AJ 14.66; BJ 1.149). In the case of Herod, he started his siege toward the end of winter (Joseph. BJ 1.343; AJ 14.465). It was a five-month siege that ended in the “third month,” on a day of solemn fasting (Joseph. BJ 1.351; AJ 14.487-8). In the case of Pompey, a three-month siege beginning around the “beginning of the spring” would have had its conclusion in late spring, coincident with the third month of the Jewish ecclesiastical calendar. In the case of Herod, a five-month siege, which he began in winter, puts the fifth month likewise in the vicinity of late spring. So, to be clear on the subject, by context, neither instance can be even remotely construed to have occurred in autumn, which is where Tishri and the Day of Atonement fall.

Concerning the third month, Sivan, I can find no record in any of the Jewish literature to pinpoint what fast this might have been. Nor can I definitively establish a day of the week.

For the fast, the 23rd of Sivan is the closest example I could find, observed in modern times as the fast for omitting the offering of the first fruits in Jerusalem during the days of Jeroboam (Shulchan Arukh, Orach Chayim 580.2). However, it is suspect, since the circumstances surrounding the incident of Jeroboam interfering with the sacrifice of the people in Jerusalem looks to be coincident to Tabernacles rather than anything occurring in Sivan (1 Kgs. 12:25-33; Joseph. AJ 8.225-230). The earliest reference I could find to corroborate such a fast was the Shulchan Arukh, by Joseph Karo, 1563, as noted. Meanwhile, his most significant predecessor, Maimonides, made no mention of this fast in his Misneh Torah, c. 1168-1178. Nor are there any such references in the Talmud.

I did find another reference to weekly fasts on Mondays and Thursdays (Tosef. to Ta'an. 2:4), but I couldn't determine their origin in terms of date, whether this was a regular practice in the first century BCE, or if it was something that came in vogue much later, as so many other observances did.

For the day, there is an inference that Pompey took the city on the sabbath (Joseph. AJ 14.64), but regular, ritual fasting is prohibited on the sabbath (bErub. 41a, bTa’an 27b), so this inference is likely just a coincidence of wording. Dio Cassius also tells us that Jerusalem was taken on the Day of Saturn, or Saturday, in the instances of both Pompey and Herod (Dio Cass. 37.16.1-4, 49.22.2-5). However, I suspect, because of the prohibition against fasting on the sabbath (apart from occasional exceptions), that he merely inferred the Day of Saturn because of Pompey's tactics.

Soooooo, I'm at a bit of an impasse. I can live with the conclusion that there was some unnamed fast in the month of Sivan if I can't find an answer. That Josephus says there was one is proof enough for me that a ritual fast in the third month existed in the first century BCE. The lack of a specific answer will neither make nor break the conclusions of my research. However, I've seen some intelligent people on here already. I'm hoping someone might be able to point me in the right direction to discover the identify of this enigmatic fast. It would be nice icing on the cake.

And I would be much obliged if responses were confined to the question. I know the temptation is great to expound upon the various death of Herod hypotheses. But I just want to know about the fast if anyone can provide me with some useful information.

The relevance of this question concerns the birth and life of Christ. It is part of a greater study on the death of Herod, which has a direct impact on the nativity, and by extension the ministry of Jesus Christ.

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  • I hope you don't mind me editing your question by adding (Sivan). I have done this to draw attention to your question because it will now appear at the top of 'active' questions. It would be interesting to read any answers you might get.
    – Lesley
    Commented Nov 25 at 13:27
  • @Lesley, not a problem at all. Honestly, I don't expect too many answers on this. I've been researching it for decades. Sites like this didn't exist back in the day. I thought, MAYBE I would get lucky and stumble on someone who could give me a hint. The best I've come up with are the regular weekly fasts. But I haven't been able to corroborate their observance in the first century BCE. The earliest reference I've found is Epiphanius, who mentions both the Christian and Jewish weekly fasts. But Epiphanius is fourth century CE, and therefore five hundred years removed.
    – AFrazier
    Commented Nov 25 at 14:21
  • Is this link helpful? judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/75986/different-fast-days/…
    – Lesley
    Commented Nov 25 at 16:04
  • It does list the 23rd of Sivan. There are a few others I'll have to track down to see what they are, and when they were instituted. Thanks for the link.
    – AFrazier
    Commented Nov 25 at 16:13
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    Fascinating information and a worthwhile revisit of the events whereby God prevented his enemies from destroying his people. I shall look out for any further questions/answers you post.
    – Lesley
    Commented Dec 1 at 15:40

1 Answer 1

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From this commentary, it appears that there was loss and then a remembrance fast declared, rather than the loss happening on an already declared fast day.

  1. fast of. . . fourth month--On the fourth month of the eleventh year of Zedekiah's reign, on the ninth day, Jerusalem was taken ( Jer 39:2 52:6, 7 ). It was therefore made a fast day. fifth. . . seventh--(See on JF & B for Zec 7:3; JF & B for Zec 7:5). tenth--On the tenth month and tenth day, in the ninth year of Zedekiah, the siege began ( Jer 52:4 ). JFB from Blue Letter Bible Zech 8:19

Haven't seen a reference previous to Josephus about a fast in the third month, but since it happened in the "silent period", it wouldn't be in scripture, although, again, the concept of a fast to remember a loss was previously.

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  • Yeah, I've read all that stuff. As you say, Josephus is the only source to mention a fast in the third month. Given the complete lack of documentation for said fast, I am becoming more and more convinced that it was one of the two weekly fasts. I just need to find corroboration for its observance in the first century BCE. Ultimately, the inability to identify the fast doesn't change anything. The evidence of its existence is Josephus himself. But it would be nice to fill in the blank if I can.
    – AFrazier
    Commented Nov 25 at 14:27

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