Christ in the context of Predestination

Question

I'm grappling with the idea of predestination at the moment. I feel it has several problems, or maybe I'm just not thinking things through.

However, one of the basic questions that arises for me is that if the saved and unsaved were predestined from eternity, what is the role of God's incarnation? What does it actually change? Predestination is usually defended on the idea that humans are so totally depraved that they could never merit salvation through their goodness? Isn't the point of Christ that we were formerly unable through our goodness (lack of it) to initiate a relation with God, so that Christ's role was to initiate this relation, to create this mediation? And once that is in effect, we have the choice to accept this relation or reject it? Isn't the point of Christianity precisely that since we cannot merit salvation through morality, we must always depend on Christ, in choosing Him?

This tenet of predestination seems to me to still being stuck with the Law and morality.

Answer 1

Isn't the point of Christ that we were formerly unable through our goodness (lack of it) to initiate a relation with God, so that Christ's role was to initiate this relation, to create this mediation? And once that is in effect, we have the choice to accept this relation or reject it? Isn't the point of Christianity precisely that since we cannot merit salvation through morality, we must always depend on Christ, in choosing Him?

Calvinists would agree with all of this. What predestination means for Calvinists is that even though we do choose to accept or reject God's offer of reconciliation, the ultimate and decisive choice is God's. Our wills are real, but God's will is decisive.

John Piper talks about it this way:

And so sovereignty is God's decisive self-reliance, self-determination. And there is no such thing as ultimate human self-determination. Humans have measures of self-determination, but they are not ultimate, because God ultimately governs and guides all of human willing and all of natural events. That's what I mean by the sovereignty of God. (Source)

I've never met a believer who, when you ask how they came to Christ, really wants to take credit for it. I've never talked to anybody who wants to say that they we the one who really provided the decisive initiative and the decisive work behind their salvation. Almost every believer, because of the work of God within them, wants to give God the credit for their salvation.

When you have two brothers listening to a sermon together, and one is awakened to see the spiritual beauty of Christ while the other isn't, can this awakening in the one be attributed to any innate wisdom or sensitivity to spiritual things? No! These things are not innate. The Bible says that we are all dead in our trespasses and sins and that it is God who makes us alive together with Christ. God, in his sovereign mercy, is the one who quickens people and causes them to be born again. (Source)

Answer 2

The confusion is predestination vs. foreknowledge. There is a definite gap in God's thinking, and our thinking (The Bible clearly states this). When God/Jesus Christ says something at a moment (which we cannot fathom at the moment), they (God/Jesus Christ) have infinity of before/after. For example Moses thought that God was behind Pharaoh's actions, whereas in a subsequent chapter it is clearly revealed as God's foreknowledge. God already knows that me/you/someone will do this or something else at this (or next ...) moment. That is not predestination.

Answer 3

Predestination does not mean that Christ's coming is unnecessary. God still demands a sacrifice for the sins of the world, whether those accepting of it are predestined to accept it or not.

In Calvinism, you do, in fact, still choose Christ. However, without God working in you, you could never choose Christ. God gives you the capacity to choose the life of grace, then you freely and willingly turn to Christ and accept Him.

Everything is still the same, as you have said it, as with non-predestination theologies.

Answer 4

The source of your confusion apparently stems from a misunderstanding of predestination and foreknowledge. Predestination is never mentioned in the Bible.

However, there are numerous instances where something has been pre determined by God, based on his foreknowledge.

1st. Samuel 25:17 Now therefore know and consider what thou wilt do; for evil is determined against our master, and against all his household: for he is such a son of Belial, that a man cannot speak to him.

this was destined by God because of his foreknowledge, that David would make war with Nabal, and David was saved from killing Nabal by Abagail, who would also have perished had David and his men attack Nabal's household. However the LORD himself killed Nabal.

1st. Samuel 25:38 And it came to pass about ten days after, that the LORD smote Nabal, that he died.

Also

Daniel 9:19 through 24 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.
20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God; 21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. 22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. 23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. God sent Gabriel to Daniel for the express reason of explaining the future to him the future is therefore known to God, and was so before Creation.

The fact that God knows the future does not mean that he has decreed every thing to happen in a specific manner, which what predestination means.

God gave man free will and he has the choice of his eternal future, If God had predestined what souls would and would not be saved it would no longer be free will as those destined for Hell would not have the option of salvation, and those destined for salvation would not have the choice of disobedience.

We cannot fathom why God decided to go ahead with creation and especially the creation of man knowing that many would choose to spend their eternity in torture. To Question God and his ways is no different than Satan's sin in that it is elevating our principles to be equal with his.

Hope this helps