Timeline for According to the triune concept, at what point does this logically structured statement become NOT True?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
16 events
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| Nov 27, 2022 at 18:49 | comment | added | Ray Butterworth | @Biblasia, I never said that "YHWH is not the true God", nor did I say that "Jesus did not say that the true God is 'the Father'". From a trinitarian or binitarian perspective, what I said would make sense and not imply either of those statements. Unitarians don't believe that both the Father and the Son are God, so obviously what I said wouldn't match their doctrines. But the question asked for a Trinitarian perspective, so unitarian views are irrelevant to this question. ¶ See the explanation I added to the end of my answer. | |
| Nov 27, 2022 at 18:48 | history | edited | Ray Butterworth | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Make the fallacy more explicit.
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| Nov 27, 2022 at 16:26 | comment | added | Biblasia | @RayButterworth Only those whose opinions are held to be more important than what the Bible actually says, and plainly so, will choose to argue that YHWH is not the true God, or that Jesus did not say that the true God is "the Father." It's as simple as connecting the dots. John 17:3, John 20:17, John 4:21-23--all of these tell us who God, the only true God, is--in Jesus' own words. And that is the Father. The only way for Jesus to have been wrong about the Old Testament God is for the OT to have had a different God than the NT. But that conclusion would be foolish--they are the same God. | |
| Nov 27, 2022 at 16:12 | comment | added | Ray Butterworth | @Biblasia, it uses the analogy that YHWH is like a father, just as it uses the analogy that God is a husband to Israel. But that doesn't mean that YHWH was "The Father" that Jesus revealed. ¶ Consider: John 1:18 ("No one has seen God at any time. [… Jesus] has declared Him.") John 17:25 ("… Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You …") John 5:37 ("And the Father Himself … . You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form."). Those statements are about "The Father" and are not true of YHWH. | |
| Nov 27, 2022 at 15:51 | comment | added | Biblasia | @RayButterworth But the Old Testament does identify God as our Father. | |
| Nov 27, 2022 at 14:44 | comment | added | Ray Butterworth | @Biblasia, agreed, YHWH was the god of Abraham. But you are equating YHWH as the Father. Many believe that YHWH was the pre-incarnate Son, not the Father, whose existence hadn't yet been revealed to humanity. | |
| Nov 27, 2022 at 14:18 | comment | added | Biblasia | @RayButterworth I think you have missed a couple of key teachings of Jesus that would invalidate your entire premise regarding point #3. Here is one: "And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" (Mark 12:26, KJV). See also Matthew 22:32 and Luke 20:37. Jesus clearly taught that God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob--and this God is identified as YHWH in the Hebrew Old Testament. | |
| Nov 25, 2022 at 18:11 | comment | added | eques | @ReadLessPrayMore "Its only cryptic to Trinitarians" not really. It only appears that Trinitarians see it as cryptic by non-Trinitarians who don't really grasp what Trinitarians believe. Trinitarians do not have a problem with "one Lord" as stated in your cited verse. | |
| Nov 24, 2022 at 13:28 | comment | added | Read Less Pray More | Matthew 22:43 He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying: 44 ‘YHWH said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool” ’?_____Jesus makes a distinction here between himself and his God, YHWH. | |
| Oct 20, 2022 at 23:03 | comment | added | Read Less Pray More | Yes I know. My questions are completely rational and objective. I am banned from questioning in the BHSE so I am here. These questions NEED scope. Since the majority of users are trinitarians, that is my scope. So much rep is up for graps within my group of questions if anyone would be brave enough to answer. | |
| Oct 20, 2022 at 23:01 | comment | added | Ray Butterworth | @ReadLessPrayMore says "Its only cryptic to trinitarians". That's good, because I'm not a trinitarian. But in case you haven't got it yet, and I'm fairly sure you haven't, know that questions and answers on this site are supposed to be unrelated to our personal beliefs. | |
| Oct 20, 2022 at 22:59 | comment | added | Ray Butterworth | @ReadLessPrayMore, with respect to disputing this answer, the only proof or support that's relevant is scripture that explicitly confirms point 3. Anything else (such as proving the question's hidden agenda) is irrelevant. | |
| Oct 20, 2022 at 22:42 | comment | added | Read Less Pray More | Proof? Is anything proven? But it does strengthen it BEYOND any man made irrational doctrine. Its his most important command for heaven's sake. Its only cryptic to trinitarians. My brethren see and hear. Ears to hear. Can't hear when we are in the pride of our knowledge of man made doctrines.. | |
| Oct 20, 2022 at 22:40 | comment | added | Ray Butterworth | @ReadLessPrayMore, cryptic comments don't help anyone. Is that supposed to be proof that "Jesus declares his God to be the God of Abraham", or what? ¶ Or if anyone else reading this knows how this is relevant, please let me know. | |
| Oct 20, 2022 at 22:11 | comment | added | Read Less Pray More | Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. shâma‛ yiśrâ'êl YHWH elohim 'echâd YHWH. Read this as a babe and you too will see thee Truth of this; THEE most important commandment passed on throughout generations. | |
| Oct 20, 2022 at 18:33 | history | answered | Ray Butterworth | CC BY-SA 4.0 |