Skip to main content
added 145 characters in body
Source Link
Kristopher
  • 6.2k
  • 5
  • 35
  • 73

A biblical Unitarian response found here says in part

Translators and commentators who believe that the word “pierced” should refer back to the pronoun “him” cite textual variants that more clearly read “him,” as well as the flow of the sentence which continues with the word “him” in the phrase “they shall mourn for him” and “grieve bitterly for him.” The Jewish understanding of this verse has always been that the one pierced was one in an intimate relationship with God, but there is no record of any early Jewish commentator understanding Zechariah 12:10 to be saying that somehow Yahweh Himself would come into the flesh and be pierced in the literal sense of the word. It is apparent to us that the Revised Standard Version has a good translation of the verse and that Zechariah 12:10 is a prophecy of the piercing of the promised Messiah. Another important point to make is that Zechariah 12:10 is quoted in John 19:37 after the Roman soldier thrust his spear into Christ’s side. John 19:37 reads: “and, as another scripture says, ‘They will look on the one they have pierced.” The King James Version translates John 19:37 as follows: “And again another scripture saith, ‘They shall look on him whom they pierced.’” The different versions may disagree on the Hebrew text of Zechariah 12:10, but none of them disagree on the translation of the way it is quoted in the New Testament. None of the versions have the word “me,” and most of them supply the word “him” as does the KJV, NASB and RSV. If the original reading of Zechariah 12:10 was “me, whom they have pierced,” we can think of no reason that it would not be quoted that way in the New Testament. On the other hand, if the reading of Zechariah 12:10 in the RSV and other versions is correct, then it makes perfect sense that the verse would be quoted in the New Testament the way it is. We contend that the New Testament quotation of Zechariah 12:10 gives us the proper interpretation of the verse.

A biblical Unitarian response found here says in part

Translators and commentators who believe that the word “pierced” should refer back to the pronoun “him” cite textual variants that more clearly read “him,” as well as the flow of the sentence which continues with the word “him” in the phrase “they shall mourn for him” and “grieve bitterly for him.” The Jewish understanding of this verse has always been that the one pierced was one in an intimate relationship with God, but there is no record of any early Jewish commentator understanding Zechariah 12:10 to be saying that somehow Yahweh Himself would come into the flesh and be pierced in the literal sense of the word. It is apparent to us that the Revised Standard Version has a good translation of the verse and that Zechariah 12:10 is a prophecy of the piercing of the promised Messiah. Another important point to make is that Zechariah 12:10 is quoted in John 19:37 after the Roman soldier thrust his spear into Christ’s side. John 19:37 reads: “and, as another scripture says, ‘They will look on the one they have pierced.” The King James Version translates John 19:37 as follows: “And again another scripture saith, ‘They shall look on him whom they pierced.’” The different versions may disagree on the Hebrew text of Zechariah 12:10, but none of them disagree on the translation of the way it is quoted in the New Testament. None of the versions have the word “me,” and most of them supply the word “him” as does the KJV, NASB and RSV. If the original reading of Zechariah 12:10 was “me, whom they have pierced,” we can think of no reason that it would not be quoted that way in the New Testament. On the other hand, if the reading of Zechariah 12:10 in the RSV and other versions is correct, then it makes perfect sense that the verse would be quoted in the New Testament the way it is. We contend that the New Testament quotation of Zechariah 12:10 gives us the proper interpretation of the verse.

added 589 characters in body
Source Link
Kristopher
  • 6.2k
  • 5
  • 35
  • 73

I recently read an excellent response on this so called proof text the OP is clinging to.

Here is the link to the original post

Below is aare some salient pointpoints made

John 19:37 (even in the KJV) where this scripture has been quoted by John. All translations show John here translating Zech. 12:10 as "They shall look upon him [or the one'] whom they pierced." So we have this Apostle and inspired Bible writer telling us plainly (and undisputed even by trinitarian scholars) that Zechariah 12:10 should read: "They shall look upon him (not me')." Therefore, Jehovah is speaking in Zech. 12:10 of someone else who will be pierced - not Himself!

The OT Greek Septuagint uses "me" (in existing copies, at least - 4th century A.D. and later), but it is significantly different from the Hebrew text: "They shall look upon me, because they have mocked me, and they shall make lamentation for him, as for a beloved [friend], and they shall grieve intensely, as for a firstborn [son]." - Zech. 12:10, Septuagint, Zondervan, 1976 printing. In other words, (1) they will look upon God whom they have mocked [not "pierced"] as their judgment arrives and (2) they will mourn Christ. The two are not the same person here, nor the same God!

The testimony of the first Christian writers to come after the NT writers (the Ante-Nicene Fathers') confirms the non-trinitarian translation of Zechariah 12:10 ("him"). Ignatius, Irenaeus, and Tertullian (repeatedly) rendered Zech. 12:10 as "him whom they pierced"! This is specially significant because trinitarian scholars and historians claim these particular early Christians (including Origen who doesn't quote Zech. 12:10 at all in his existing writings) are the very ones who actually began the development of the trinity doctrine for Christendom! If any of the earliest Christian writers, then, would use a trinitarian interpretation here, it would certainly be these three. Since they do not do so, it must mean that the source for the look upon me' translation originated even later than the time of Ignatius, Irenaeus, and Tertullian (early 3rd century A.D.)!

I recently read an excellent response on this so called proof text the OP is clinging to.

Here is the link to the original post

Below is a salient point made

John 19:37 (even in the KJV) where this scripture has been quoted by John. All translations show John here translating Zech. 12:10 as "They shall look upon him [or the one'] whom they pierced." So we have this Apostle and inspired Bible writer telling us plainly (and undisputed even by trinitarian scholars) that Zechariah 12:10 should read: "They shall look upon him (not me')." Therefore, Jehovah is speaking in Zech. 12:10 of someone else who will be pierced - not Himself!

I recently read an excellent response on this so called proof text the OP is clinging to.

Here is the link to the original post

Below are some salient points made

John 19:37 (even in the KJV) where this scripture has been quoted by John. All translations show John here translating Zech. 12:10 as "They shall look upon him [or the one'] whom they pierced." So we have this Apostle and inspired Bible writer telling us plainly (and undisputed even by trinitarian scholars) that Zechariah 12:10 should read: "They shall look upon him (not me')." Therefore, Jehovah is speaking in Zech. 12:10 of someone else who will be pierced - not Himself!

The OT Greek Septuagint uses "me" (in existing copies, at least - 4th century A.D. and later), but it is significantly different from the Hebrew text: "They shall look upon me, because they have mocked me, and they shall make lamentation for him, as for a beloved [friend], and they shall grieve intensely, as for a firstborn [son]." - Zech. 12:10, Septuagint, Zondervan, 1976 printing. In other words, (1) they will look upon God whom they have mocked [not "pierced"] as their judgment arrives and (2) they will mourn Christ. The two are not the same person here, nor the same God!

The testimony of the first Christian writers to come after the NT writers (the Ante-Nicene Fathers') confirms the non-trinitarian translation of Zechariah 12:10 ("him"). Ignatius, Irenaeus, and Tertullian (repeatedly) rendered Zech. 12:10 as "him whom they pierced"! This is specially significant because trinitarian scholars and historians claim these particular early Christians (including Origen who doesn't quote Zech. 12:10 at all in his existing writings) are the very ones who actually began the development of the trinity doctrine for Christendom! If any of the earliest Christian writers, then, would use a trinitarian interpretation here, it would certainly be these three. Since they do not do so, it must mean that the source for the look upon me' translation originated even later than the time of Ignatius, Irenaeus, and Tertullian (early 3rd century A.D.)!

added 171 characters in body
Source Link
Kristopher
  • 6.2k
  • 5
  • 35
  • 73

John 19:37 (even in the KJV) whereI recently read an excellent response on this scripture has been quoted by John. All translations show John here translating Zech. 12:10 as "They shall look upon him [or the one'] whom they pierced." So we have this Apostle and inspired Bible writer telling us plainly (and undisputed even by trinitarian scholars) that Zechariah 12:10 should read: "They shall look upon him (not me')." Therefore, Jehovahso called proof text the OP is speaking in Zechclinging to. 12:10 of someone else who will be pierced

Here is the - not Himself!link to the original post

Below is a salient point made

John 19:37 (even in the KJV) where this scripture has been quoted by John. All translations show John here translating Zech. 12:10 as "They shall look upon him [or the one'] whom they pierced." So we have this Apostle and inspired Bible writer telling us plainly (and undisputed even by trinitarian scholars) that Zechariah 12:10 should read: "They shall look upon him (not me')." Therefore, Jehovah is speaking in Zech. 12:10 of someone else who will be pierced - not Himself!

John 19:37 (even in the KJV) where this scripture has been quoted by John. All translations show John here translating Zech. 12:10 as "They shall look upon him [or the one'] whom they pierced." So we have this Apostle and inspired Bible writer telling us plainly (and undisputed even by trinitarian scholars) that Zechariah 12:10 should read: "They shall look upon him (not me')." Therefore, Jehovah is speaking in Zech. 12:10 of someone else who will be pierced - not Himself!

I recently read an excellent response on this so called proof text the OP is clinging to.

Here is the link to the original post

Below is a salient point made

John 19:37 (even in the KJV) where this scripture has been quoted by John. All translations show John here translating Zech. 12:10 as "They shall look upon him [or the one'] whom they pierced." So we have this Apostle and inspired Bible writer telling us plainly (and undisputed even by trinitarian scholars) that Zechariah 12:10 should read: "They shall look upon him (not me')." Therefore, Jehovah is speaking in Zech. 12:10 of someone else who will be pierced - not Himself!

Source Link
Kristopher
  • 6.2k
  • 5
  • 35
  • 73
Loading