I have a simple question: why does God not live with us directly? It seems He is revealing Himself to us only indirectly, as opposed to being with us as Someone we could reach just like another person. He did it once, why not do it in perpetuity?
Answers from Trinitarian Christians, please.
15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. (John 14:15-20)
7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. (John 16:7-11)
Jesus told his disciples point blank that he could not send the Holy Spirit unless He went away.
If you study Ecclesiastes 3, you will find that we must pass through many times in life. Two of them are "a time to weep" and "a time to mourn". They are part of growing up into a mature person. When Jesus died on the cross, that was "a time to weep" on a worldwide scale. God has His purposes in conforming the world to this sequence of times, in small within our individual lives, and in large, to liberate the whole world. Part of the time God's presence with us is obvious, and other times he seems to be absent.
Job cried out because God seemed distant to him. He needed someone close by to help him. However, if you study Job's words in the speeches before God shows up, you can find that the man had a deep understanding of the nature of the savior. In the middle of saying, "I can't see you, God!" Job was revealing mysteries of God. That is because the suffering Job was enduring was a channel for God to pour wisdom into him. There is no other way for God to communicate such truths. Even Christ was made perfect through suffering.
8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek. (Hebrews 5:8-10)
Among the forms of suffering we must endure, one of the deepest is loneliness. In Genesis, loneliness is the first thing in all creation that is named as not good. (See Genesis 2:18). Thus the first sign of faith is trusting that God is with you even though you cannot see Him.
When Jesus hung on the cross, the pain of whipping and nails and lungs about to burst was intense, but what did Jesus cry out? "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" This was the greatest trial that Jesus was made to endure, the feeling that his Father had deserted him. It is when he then offers his spirit up to that Father anyway that Jesus' complete faith is made manifest.
As Luke said, "The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher." (Luke 6:40)
In our present state, we could not take the direct presence of God. Not since Adam and Eve felt the need to hide from him (Genesis ch3 v8). In fact man "cannot see God and live" (Exodus ch33 v20).
Men were able to see the Son born as man, but the Son has now "ascended", so that he is now "hidden" from us (Colossians ch3 v3).
BUT living in the direct presence of God is promised for the future. "So we shall always be with the Lord" (1 Thessalonians ch4 v17)."Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He shall dwell with them, and they shall be his people" (Revelation ch21 v3).
A simple answer from a Reformed Protestant point of view is that God never turned his back on humanity, though humanity turned away from their Creator. Right from the start, God knew what he would do to deal with human corruption and sin, and in the fullness of time, while we were still helpless sinners, he sent his only-begotten Son into the world to deal with our sin, which creates a chasm between us and God.
Although no man can see God and live, men beheld the Word who became flesh (John 1:1-14). He showed them the Father in word and deed, explaining that to see him was to see the Father (John 14:6-9). He said that those safely in his hand were in the hand of the Father (John 10:28-29). He said that the Son leads people to the Father, and the Father leads people to the Son (Matthew 11:27 & John 6:65). Faith in the Son is the way to the Father.
God's presence is through the indwelling Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9 & 15-17). He is our guarantee of "Christ in us, the hope of glory" (Colossians 1:27). We have been assured in God's written word of the believer's wonderful awareness of God:
"Being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: by whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God... because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly... But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:1-8 KJV
All three in the Godhead combine to 'disclose' God to those who have repentantly put total faith in what the Son of God did to restore us to the Father (John 14:15-21).
We cannot reach God in ways we think we should, for he is not "another person". God is Spirit and dwells in heaven, in unapproachable light, and "Without holiness, no-one will see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14). We have to be purified and submit to God's refining. That is a lifetime process which only begins once we bend our knees in faith in Jesus' name and trust utterly in what he did to restore us to God. All of this is explained in God's word, the Bible. Soak up these scriptures and prayerfully learn how to draw close to God, through faith. He is only a prayer away, for those who trust and believe.
Immanuel' is a name given to the promised Messiah, who is now come - Jesus Christ. 'Immanuel' means, 'God with us'. (see Matthew 1:23.)
Now risen and ascended, God is still among us (in Spirit) if we be penitent, believing and if we be gathered properly.
If gathered correctly, one will come in among the assembled and fall down and say 'Surely God is among you of a truth'. (See 1 Corinthians 14:25.)
Counterintuitive, right? But consider:
Consider his words on the topic:
The world cannot hate you, but it does hate me because I testify about it-that its works are evil.
John 15
"If the world hates you, understand that it hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own. However, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of it, the world hates you..... But this happened so that the statement written in their law might be fulfilled: They hated me for no reason."
Consider Moses. Psalm 78 is a neat summary. God repeatedly did major miracles in their full sight and even showed up himself. The presence at Sinai, the plagues of Egypt, the Red Sea, the manna, the water from the rock (twice), the bitter water, the bronze serpent....etc etc. Moses himself almost wouldn't believe God even as God told him he'd be a leader five times, out of the burning bush.
Jesus and Moses weren't exceptions:
Consider Mat 23:
This is why I am sending you prophets, sages, and scribes. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. So all the righteous blood shed on the earth will be charged to you, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.
Or Hebrews 11;
who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life. Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated- of whom the world was not worthy-wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Speaking of Abel: God spoke to Cain directly both before and after he murdered Abel. Did it help? No and no.
And let's not forget mum and dad in the garden: With no sin nature, no external pressure and the presence of God, how'd they go?
Which brings us to the best example, Satan: Formerly an archangel in the direct presence of God..... The demons know both the truth about God, what they were, and what is coming to them, see the demon Legion's question to Jesus: "What have we to do with you, Jesus? Have you come to torture us before the time?" Do they care?
I wouldn't normally encourage the contemplation of the motivations of Satan too much, but regarding this question it's telling.
The latter does very little good at all. You could put us all in heaven and we would hate it and rebel out of pure spite even though we know it's futile...just like Satan still does.
In John 16:7 it is recorded Jesus said it was to our advantage (!) that he went away, so that the Holy Spirit would come.
Revelation 21 and 22:
And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, and its gates will never be shut by day-and there will be no night there. They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.
It's very easy to have God in you. Recognise that you are such a jerk that you would reject God right in front of you the way you are, and cannot do anything but sin. Then have faith that Jesus will save you and all you need do is believe. His Spirit will then live in you. Which is what people - including you - actually need.
He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’(biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+16:31)
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Mar 8, 2023 at 15:29
A Trinitarian answer would be in this lecture Divine Indwelling and the Presence of God where Fr. Legge discusses 3 ways God is present to us: 1) in the order of being; 2) through the Trinitarian life / grace; 3) through the Incarnation & subsequent presence of the glorified Jesus in the Eucharist (see lecture Entering Into Christ's Passion: The Mass as a Sacrifice). Yes, the first 2 are not visible, Jesus's incarnation was in the past, and the presence in the Eucharist is spiritual. One classic explanation by Aquinas is in another lecture Aquinas on the Incarnation: part 1 and part 2 discussing why one time incarnation in the "middle" of human history makes sense and "convenient".
Rather than giving a summary of the above lectures (I plan to transcribe those lectures one day), the simple answer is this:
In the OT the Israelites felt God's presence among them and the fullness of God's presence was tangible when Jesus walked on earth.
It is God's intention that the memory of God's dealings with Israel and the account of His incarnation in Jesus were preserved in the Bible, which is YET another mode of presence for Christians when they read the Bible or when they hear the word of God preached.
In addition, the Trinitarian life is God's gift to us to make Him present in our hearts for those who are willing to receive it and be baptized.
Then Christ is also present to us in the Eucharist in masses celebrated throughout the world in the past 2,000 years or so, and in the foreseeable future.
Another mode of presence is in the church, through the acts of the believers showing love, comfort, and forgiveness in abundance.
Finally, Jesus will BE fully and visibly present in the life to come in the new Heaven and Earth after evil is fully vanquished and after the resurrection of the bodies of believers; this is every Christian's hope.
Another classic argument is that were God fully present and visible it would not preserve our free will and thus not giving us opportunity to be "trained" to voluntarily orient our lives toward the Ultimate Good. He could have been more obvious and could have written with big letters in the sky in multiple languages every morning:
"Dear humans, I am here and waiting for your decision to repent, become Christian, read your Bible and come to mass"
but (as explained in the lectures linked above) He decided to use another approach.
God is with us! God is indeed willing and able to be with us, His children! However "physically" would be a trivial way of doing it. The real important essence of a man is his soul. And Jesus had said He would dwell in our souls dynamically by the infilling of the Holy Spirit (which is God!). The charismatic dimension of Christianity must not be neglected in this discussion,
The Spirit of truth...He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you. (John 14:17,18)
Baptism of Holy Spirit Jesus promised that He would not leave His disciples as orphans! By the Baptism of the Holy Spirit God is able to be with us no matter where we are: in church, at home, incarcerated in jail, on the stormy main, in the adverse university... anywhere. Whereas, if He were only physically available, he could appear to just one person at a time... unless He cloned Himself. Jesus could only be with a person, say in Cambodia, and the rest of the nations would not be with Him. Even if Jesus travelled often, continuously, He would not be able physically to meet with each and every believer every year!
This is why Jesus insisted the disciples not leave Jerusalem until they were filled with the Holy Spirit. (Acts 1:4-5) It is so important to each believer, as your sincere interest is exemplified by asking this question. Seek Charismatic relief as prescribed by the personable God Himself.
At the right time This is what the Bible stated in Galatians, Jesus came at the right time... (Galatians 4:4) I'm sure we all would realize that if Jesus came during the 21st century, with all its technological wizardry, that every miracle He did would be dismissed by sceptics as merely digital trickery. People seeing Jesus today could not be sure if it were AI or the real Jesus talking to them.
If Jesus came sooner than the 1st century, He would not have fulfilled the date-constrained prophecies of the Old Testament. (See Daniel's prophecy, chapter 9) Also, Jesus had to arrive when there was a Temple (a requirement of Malachi); He had to come when genealogical records existed (to prove He was a son of David; the Temple with all its records was destroyed in 70 A.D.). He had to come when crucifixion was a mode of capital punishment (Isaiah 53).
Jesus came at the right time, logistically, as well. Because of the Diaspora, (scattering of the Jews), and inability of Jews to travel all the way to the Temple in Jerusalem, the synagogue form of worship proliferated! There were synagogues in villages and cities throughout the whole Mediterranean landscape, as well as the land of Judea. This made it quite functional for the spread of the Gospel by Jesus and Hid Apostles. They were able to proclaim the Good News to gathered Jews everywhere with no logistical hinderances. (Mathew 4:23, 9:35, 12:9, 13:54; Acts 9:20, 13:5,14, 14:1, 15:21, 17:1, 18:4, 26, 19:8)
And others have noticed the benefit of Jesus coming in the first century: the Greek language was known all throughout the Roman Empire: the Lingua franca was Greek, and it could be spoken and written by all the educated people that Jesus and the Apostles preached to. Thus also, the New Testament was written in this universal language.
So Jesus came at the right time...and He left in the right way...giving the Holy Spirit Presence to all His disciples!
At the Right Place Jesus came to Israel (Jerusalem) because that is where most of the supernatural prophecies were to find their fulfilment. If He showed up anywhere else, there would be no evidence for us to examine as proof of His deity. Neither Peru or Nigeria nor Germany, etc. had the Scriptures for us to test Jesus's claims.
Also, the land Province of Syro-Palestine was located in the crossroad of the civilized Roman empire. Paths going north and south (Turkey to Egypt) and trade routes east and west (Persia to Spain) went through this Jewish land. (Compare Matthew 8:11, Acts 2:5-11, long list of nations!)) Jesus appearing here was quite convenient...Providential.
[For important and exciting research, read Acts 1, John 14-17, 1 Corinthians 12-14]
Am not a trinitarian but I will tell you that God is exceedingly powerful and there are reasons he doesn't interact with us directly, for one it is his glory , the glory of God forbids it because He is too holy and his radiance as a result of this glory is ten times brighter than that of the sun. If you or any human being is to look at him then he is to become blind. If the radiance of Jesus when he intercepted Paul on his way to Damascus caused Paul to become blind, he is spirit and that is why he is everywhere at all times. For God to lift the veil that covers the spirit world for men to see Him then hope and faith will be invalidated. God needs you to have faith in things you cannot see and that pleases him. You cannot have faith that the sun exists because you can see the sun but you need faith to believe that he lives and yet you cannot see him.
Faith is the foundation of Christianity. Abraham who was the first to please God with faith believed in an unknown destination and left without any questions.
In conclusion, it is for your own protection that he hides his identity from you because his glory can harm flesh and blood and that is why no flesh and blood sees Him and lives.
