0

A quote from this link :

The sun is not needed for day and night. What is needed is light and a rotating earth.

To me, the sentence in the quote above tell something like this :
A. in order day and night exist, light and rotating earth is needed.

Based on A, to me it's the same meaning if I "expand" the sentence to something like this
B. in order the first hour of the 24 hours of the first day exist, light and rotating earth is needed.

So in other words of point-B :
the first hour of 24 hours of the first day begin soon after the light was created.
OR in another words:
after the light was created then the first hour of the 24 hours of the first day begin.

But then the point-B leads me to a conclusion like this :
it can't be known for how long the earth is in the state of formless and empty and darkness covered the deep waters
because although (assumed) the earth is rotating once it's created .... but there is no light yet. Hence, there is no day and night yet ---> there is no day yet ---> there is no (24 hours) of day yet ---> there is no the first hour of a day yet.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

Gen 1:1 doesn't say "In the beginning of the first day God created the heavens and the earth". Even if it does say like that or to be interpreted like that, it doesn't make sense since the logic is : there is no day before the light AND rotating earth created.

So, reading Gen 1:1 at face value - it can't be answered if there is a question : "When the earth was created?". Which if it's answered with "in the first day", then (again) it doesn't make sense - since there is no day before earth and light created.

Since the link provided say as point-A :

light and a rotating earth is needed for day and night

and because I assumed that in the point of view YEC :
"earth is created in the first hour of the first day"

so I can't understand this :
if light and a rotating earth is needed for day and night,
how come the first hour of day already begin before earth is created ?


Why the question is addressed to the YEC, it's because to me the sentence from the YEC raise a question.

two examples from the YEC sentence :

Could God Really Have Created Everything in Six Days?
Gen 1:1-1:2 is included in the six days of creation

To me, those two sentences show a logical-order that :
in the first day of the earth, God created the earth.

That's why in my mind : How come ?
How come there is the first day of the earth while there is no earth?

Illustration:
11.59.59 pm = Saturday
12.00.00 am = Sunday
12.00.01 am = the first second of Sunday

Someone do an act in Sunday exactly at 12.00.00 am
logical-order : the day (of Sunday) exist first - then the act.

BUT in the case of the earth creation, there is NO day of earth at all at first because there is no earth. So the saying "In the first day of the earth, God created earth" made me don't understand.

The saying is just like saying :
at 12.00.00 am (Sunday), God created the earth.

So, in my mind : How come ?
How come it is said (by the YEC) that :
God created the earth-heaven-light (simultaneously) IN the first day of the earth (???)
How come the first day of the earth exist first then the act of earth creation ?

If in a logical-order, to me : the creation of earth-heaven-light is resulting the first day of the earth exist. So the WHEN of the act of that creation itself is unknown.

So, how the YEC said like the quote above, as if "it is known ---> it is on the first hour of the first day of the earth" (???).

4
  • 2
    I can't see why this question is aimed at YEC. You seem to be questioning scripture itself. The question gets itself into an impossible and unsanswerable tangle whatever view one has as to the earth's creation. I would suggest that the OP state what they think the sequence of events is so that we learn something from the question. More clarity and detail is needed.
    – Nigel J
    Sep 10 '21 at 10:15
  • As someone who answered karma's most recent questions regarding Genesis 1, I understand the question as written, but yes, this question can be phrased better by providing some context so it's more beneficial to the wider audience. Basically, this question is a follow up of Ken Ham's YEC solution about 24 hour day. Sep 10 '21 at 17:14
  • In the beginning refers to an unknown time period when the universe was initiated. Genesis creation account deals with the planet being brought up-to code And made ready for humans.
    – Kris
    Sep 11 '21 at 21:18
  • @Kris, yes that's what I've been thinking. To me it doesn't matter if it's just a blink of an eye OR a long time period right before the earth-heaven-light exist. The point for me : "it's unknown when God create it". The known thing is : AFTER God created it, then the first day of the earth exist.
    – karma
    Sep 12 '21 at 15:44
3

The quote

The sun is not needed for day and night. What is needed is light and a rotating earth.

came from Ken Ham's book, The New Answers Book 1 (2006), Chapter 8: Could God Really Have Created Everything in Six Days? Ken Ham is president of Answers in Genesis, a Young Earth Creationist (YEC) organization.

He addressed your question in Chapter 5: What About the Gap & Ruin-Reconstruction Theories? Consistent with his way of reading Genesis 1 (literal and straightforward), he believes that Gen 1:1-1:2 is included in the six days of creation whose description started in verse 3. In other words, Verses 1-2 are included in the first day (i.e. no gap between verse 2 and verse 3).

After discussing the alternate theories and going into the meaning of several Hebrew words, he wrote:

The Straightforward Meaning of Genesis 1:1–2

The gap (or ruin-reconstruction) theory is based on a very tenuous interpretation of Scripture.

The simple, straightforward meaning of Genesis 1:1–2 is that, when God created the earth at the beginning, it was initially formless, empty, and dark, and God’s Spirit was there above the waters. It was through His creative energy that the world was then progressively formed and filled during the six days of creation.

Consider the analogy of a potter making a vase. The first thing he does is gather a ball of clay. What he has is good, but it is unformed. Next, he shapes it into a vase, using his potter’s wheel. Now the ball of clay is no longer formless. He then dries it, applies glaze, and fires it. Now it is ready to be filled—with flowers and water. At no time could one of the stages be considered evil or bad. It was just unfinished—unformed and unfilled. When the vase was finally formed and filled, it could be described as “very good.”

Anticipating your microanalysis of the picture like in your last question, here's what I think Ken Ham means in more detail (I use the ESV translation):

  1. In the split second covering Gen 1:1-1:3, from "In the beginning" to "Let there be light", God created the following simultaneously:

  2. Gen 1:2a: "The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep." This is the description of the first 24-hour day, since "the deep" means the sea, and during the first 24 hour rotation, each part of the sea receives its share of the darkness when the light wasn't shining over that part of the sea.

  3. Gen 1:2b: "And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." Again, this does NOT mean BEFORE God said "Let there be light", but over the first 24 hour duration where the earth was formless and empty:

    • was hovering is past continuous, so over a duration of time
    • formless because the land has not yet been separated, water was seen everywhere in the surface.
    • empty because there was no living being or vegetation, just water.
  4. Gen 1:3: "And God said, 'Let there be light,' and there was light. The simple reading allows us to conceive that God said this within the split second that the universe and the rotating earth was created in point #1 above.

THE ANSWER: A literal and straightforward reading of Genesis favored by YEC allows us to visualize that the rotating earth is created together with the light (or in a quick succession) within a split second in the very beginning of the first second of the first minute of the first hour of the first day. Therefore, the earth's formlessness, emptiness and darkness can be included in the first day.


Your comment:

Why this question arise in my mind, it also because I read the sentence at face value ---> chronology sequence of a condition and an act. (just like the one I ask about "then He separated"). And the answer of this question is also the same like before : it's just a story-telling style while actually when God said "Let there be light" ---> it's not just light which is created, but also earth and heaven.

So the proper sentence (for easier understanding by the reader) of God saying is actually : "Let there be earth, heaven and light" where when each object is said then it suddenly exist. (where the state of the earth's formlessness, emptiness and darkness is just less then a second). And about "was hovering is past continuous, so over a duration of time" ---> the duration is also less then a second. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Could God Really Have Created Everything in Six Days? still bugging me. Because to me if it's in a logical order (ignoring a duration), that sentence implies that the first day exist first (precede) then God's act (proceed).

I'm going to answer your comment from the YEC perspective even though in my personal opinion (which is not YEC), a framework interpretation of Genesis 1 (also described here and here) in conjunction with the Biblical cosmology assumed in the world of the OT authors, is more satisfactory (to me) and removes the problem stated in your comment.

But going back to your comment, now I see better why you have difficulty. You are forcing the text to speak as though it is merely a lab experiment report. Why do you do that? What's important for YEC view (without gap) is that Gen 1:1 to Gen 1:5 describes the first day. Why does the description have to be strictly sequential second by second? Why do you require Gen 1:1-1:2 to be applied only in the first second? What if the Genesis author wants to communicate more than a mathematical + sequential description?

Instead, one can still hold the YEC view (without gap) by interpreting verses 1 and 2 this way:

  • Verse 1. Please recall in my previous answer that the light in Day 1 to Day 3 is temporary, to be replaced by the sun, moon and stars starting in Day 4. So the author can be excused by only describing what's enduring: heavens (earth's atmosphere and outer space) and the planet earth, not simply a report of what happens in the split second creation of the universe, earth, and light.

  • Verse 2. As I explained above, we can legitimately interpret this as a poetic (but TRUE) description of what the earth looks to God in the first 24 hour, not necessarily a sequential description of what happens between verse 1 and verse 3. Why couldn't you allow Gen 1:2 to mean this way?

  • Starting verse 3, the author switches to sequential description.

But again, I hope you start seeing how a reader can force the text to speak more than what's the author intended. What if the author didn't intend to communicate that the whole creation happens in six 24-hour day literally? What if we are forcing this view on the text? Being aware of the 3 worlds (the world of the author, the world of the text, and the world of the reader) involved in interpreting any work of literature is critical and help us mitigate false assumptions and biases we bring to the text. A good introductory article about the role of the 3 worlds is How do we interpret the Bible today? (1980) by I. Howard Marshall, a well-known evangelical Bible scholar who wrote several influential books on Bible interpretation.

15
  • 1
    Disclaimer: I'm writing an answer from the YEC perspective to the best of my ability, but I personally believe that Gen 1 is best interpreted not literally but mythically. Having said that, there are still a lot of commonalities between the YEC and the mythic views: absolute sovereignty of God, God is outside time and space, God created everything (there was no preexisting matter), the universe is not permanent and can be destroyed and recreated at the end of time, etc. Sep 10 '21 at 5:14
  • Up-voted +1 (mostly for the Disclaimer)
    – Nigel J
    Sep 10 '21 at 10:16
  • Again, I've accepted your answer, GratefulDisciple. Why this question arise in my mind, it also because I read the sentence at face value ---> chronology sequence of a condition and an act. (just like the one I ask about "then He separated"). And the answer of this question is also the same like before : it's just a story-telling style while actually when God said "Let there be light" ---> it's not just light which is created, but also earth and heaven.
    – karma
    Sep 11 '21 at 5:42
  • So the proper sentence (for easier understanding by the reader) of God saying is actually : "Let there be earth, heaven and light" where when each object is said then it suddenly exist. (where the state of the earth's formlessness, emptiness and darkness is just less then a second). And about "was hovering is past continuous, so over a duration of time" ---> the duration is also less then a second. Please correct me if I'm wrong, GratefulDisciple.
    – karma
    Sep 11 '21 at 5:54
  • Still the sentence : Could God Really Have Created Everything in Six Days? still bugging me. Because to me if it's in a logical order (ignoring a duration), that sentence implies that the first day exist first (precede) then God's act (proceed).
    – karma
    Sep 11 '21 at 6:09

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .