It seems some have trouble reading the actual words we are given. Intent on joining the dots in a pre-determined pattern, they miss the obvious meaning provided.
There is no 'HE' in John 1:1-3. This is a literary device at best to simulate the logos' intimate connection with God - which is 'divine' and 'with' God. (anything with God is not God)
This is confirmed in 1 John 1:1-2 concerning the logos...
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our own eyes, which we have gazed upon and touched with our own hands—this is the Word of life. 2And this is the life that was revealed; we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.
So the logos is not a person, but simply the word of God - as expressed repeatedly though the NT. The disciples understood what Jesus came from - they could now touch and proclaim God's means of giving life - the logos - now made flesh. Now, in this new age and the age to come, Jesus is the source of new life - even raising them from the dead with his word. John 5:29
This word, or will or purpose of God (translated as statement, story, news and many others) was made into a man - Jesus ~4BC. That which (as 1 J 1 shows) represents a most basic form of God - His word, is now a man. Not 'fully God', but filled with the fullness of God - being His image and likeness.
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form Col 2:9
Dwells in. Not IS.
For the word (logos) of God is living and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating even as far as the division of soul and spirit... Heb 4:12
No person here either. Just as is in no other 'logos' verse.
The Colossians reference? Paul doesn't back anything up as suggested.
because in Him were created all things in the heavens and upon the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or lordships or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through Him and unto Him. Col 1:16
- IN him - not BY him.
- things IN heaven - not THE heavens.
- things ON earth - not THE earth.
- Through him, for him - not BY him
From the Gr. δι' (di') often meaning 'because of, by reason of. "through" is not about the method of creating, but the purpose of creating.
Thus all things have their ultimate purpose in Christ. For without Christ as redeemer, there is nothing of Godly value in all His earthly creation. All things are made to have their meaning and potential in Christ - this was the plan from the beginning. Only in Christ are we in the image of God. Rom 8:29
The plainly spoken words reveal a truth which is consistently mis-read and mis-represented. The new creation, of the church centred on the coming kingdom, and its presence in Christ already, is the topic here, not a Genesis creation.
Further confirmed by the context of the continuing Colossians passage-
...He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
So Jesus is the firstborn of the new creation. Being the firstborn of the original creation is unscriptural and ignoring immediate context.
- how can Jesus 'come to have first place in everything', if he made everything?
- being 'firstborn of the dead' is the first to change from mortal flesh to immortal flesh - having life by the spirit instead of the blood. Jesus was never immortal to begin with - scripture readily bears his out.
To be perfectly clear- Jesus did not exist before he was conceived. He was only a plan, a prophecy and a promise. The logos is not a pre-existing Jesus. Anything other than this is derived not from scripture.
Paul has joined the dots for us without equivocation - stating the plain truth and confirming the nature of Jesus quite consistently.
John 1 is speaking of the logos - the word of God. Not until v14 is Jesus - the 'logos made flesh' revealed. It is this Jesus Paul speaks of. Who most certainly did not make the heavens and the earth as he wasn't born yet.
“and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.”
- the 'Him' is the logos - it is not in any way Jesus - not until v14
- the logos is the word of God - God makes everything that is
- John says He does this by His word. This fits with Isaiah 44:24, I, the Lord, am the maker of all things. The logos isn't the maker - it's a word, just as God's spirit is not a separate entity apart from God, God's logos is not independent either - it is what God says.
- God says let there be light - and so it is. Did the 'says' make light? Not on its own, if God didn't say it it wouldn't be.
- John needed to explain God’s logos as that was what Jesus came from and isn’t just another ‘son of God’. This information is critical!
The insistence on a 'person' called the logos is a futile attempt to create a necessary 'pre-existent Jesus' to fit traditional dogma invented after the Apostolic Church Fathers passed on.