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My point is why does Michael the arch-angel swear an oath on behalf of God and multiply Abraham's seed at Genesis 22:16-17 in light of what Hebrews 6:13-14 states?

"For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, verse 14, "saying, "I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply you."

So again, how can Michael swear an oath on behalf of God since no one is greater than God Himself? It's right there in Genesis 22:15,16, "Then the angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven, and said, "By Myself I have sworn etc. How can this be "reconciled?"

The Hebrew word for "angel" is "malak." This word means "messenger." The word can refer to an actual angel like Michael or it can refer to human "messengers," it all depends on the context. At Malachi 3:1, "Behold I am going to send my "malak/angel/messenger," and he will clear the way before Me, and the Lord whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the "malak/angel/messenger" of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the Lord of hosts."

Mark 1:1-4 identifies John the Baptist as the angel/messenger who will clear the way of the Lord. By the way, the prophet "Malachi" is obviously a human prophet and his name is from the Hebrew word, "malak." I contend that the angel of the Lord is not an actual angel named Michael. The angel of the Lord is the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ. This is because God the Father has no separate manifestation from the Son. The Son is the only manifestation and revelation of the Father. To see the Son is to see the essence of the Father, John 1:1, 18; 10:30; 12;45; Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:3.

Moreover, the angel of the Lord first appears as the angel of the Lord at Genesis 16:7-14, Genesis 22:11-15, Exodus 3:2-4, Numbers 22:22-38, Judges 2:1-3, Judges 6:11-23, Judges 13; 3-22, Zechariah 1:12 and at Zechariah 3:4.

Since Jehovah Witnesses believe Michael is an actual angel, well, angels CANNOT SWEAR OATHS on behalf of God, especially since God Himself claims there is no one Greater than Him at Hebrews 6:13-14.

And another thing, the following is what the Jehovah Witnesses said?

Under the article "The Word" in the JW reference work Insight on the Scriptures Vol. II page 1203 it says this: "In a similar way God’s firstborn Son doubtless served as the Mouth, or Spokesman, for his Father, the great King of Eternity. He was God’s Word of communication for conveying information and instructions to the Creator’s other spirit and human sons. It is reasonable to think that prior to Jesus’ coming to earth, on many of the occasions when God communicated with humans he used the Word as his angelic mouthpiece."

Citing a number of scriptural citations, the article assumes that Jesus was the angel that: stopped Abraham from sacrificing Isaac; spoke to Moses through the burning bush; may have been the angel that was charged with leading the nation of Israel through the wilderness. In all except the latter case, the scriptures referenced specifically mention "Jehovah's angel."

So the Jehovah's Witnesses belief that Jesus appears in the OT is primarily based on Jesus identity as "The Word" as well as the OT wording "Jehovah's angel."

It is true that Jesus Christ is the "Word/Logos" and Jehovah's angel/the angel of the Lord. The problem they have is twofold. They claim that the Word/Logos/Son is "a god." Even "a god" cannot swear an oath on behalf of "THEE GOD." So if the JW's are right, who swore the oath, Michael,"a god" or both?

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    I dont understand your question. Gen 22:15,16 the angel is quoting YHWH’s words to Abraham. The angel is not swearing on himself but is delivering a promissory message from the Almighty. – Kris Feb 12 at 3:13
  • @NigelJ I would like to know if I can clear up what's being argued i.e. (my whole point) in my initial thread? One or even two comments is not enough to do diligence because I have to bring various versus into play to give crystal clear clarity of my point. – Mr. Bond Feb 12 at 21:32
  • The reporter said “I am the greatest president in the history of this country Trump boasted, and even greater things are in store for the next 4 years”. Was the reporter claiming to be the greatest president in the history of the country? – Kris Feb 12 at 21:49
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    @KrisI want to thank you for quoting what was said three years ago on this particular issue, you have done me a great service. – Mr. Bond Feb 12 at 22:19
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    @Kris I was able to quote "Insight into the Scriptures" and what it said here: "So the Jehovah's Witnesses belief that Jesus appears in the OT is primarily based on Jesus identity as "The Word" as well as the OT wording "Jehovah's angel." – Mr. Bond Feb 12 at 23:33
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You say: “Jehovah Witnesses teach that Michael the arch-angel is Jesus.” This is true. The booklet What Does the Bible Really Teach? says this in the Appendix on pages 218-219:

“Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth.” After quoting 1 Thessalonians 4:16 it says: “This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael... it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.”

You say: “So the Jehovah's Witnesses belief that Jesus appears in the OT is primarily based on Jesus identity as "The Word" as well as the OT wording "Jehovah's angel." This is true according to this article, The Word – Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2:

“It is reasonable to think that prior to Jesus’ coming to Earth, on many of the occasions when God communicated with humans he used the Word as his angelic mouthpiece. (Ge 16:7-11; 22:11; 31:11; Ex 3:2-5; Jg 2:1-4; 6:11, 12; 13:3) Citing a number of scriptural citations, the article assumes that Jesus was the angel that: stopped Abraham from sacrificing Isaac; spoke to Moses through the burning bush; may have been the angel that was charged with leading the nation of Israel through the wilderness. In all except the latter case, the scriptures referenced specifically mention "Jehovah's angel." https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200004625#h=31

Another article I found sheds some light on your question. This is a partial quote from an article about Jesus Christ – Prehuman Existence - Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2, page 52. Jesus Christ is “The name and title of the Son of God from the time of his anointing while on earth.”

“Doubtless on many occasions during his prehuman existence as the Word, Jesus acted as Jehovah’s Spokesman to persons on earth. While certain texts refer to Jehovah as though directly speaking to humans, other texts make clear that he did so through an angelic representative. (Compare Ex 3:2-4 with Ac 7:30, 35; also Ge 16:7-11, 13; 22:1, 11, 12, 15-18) Reasonably, in the majority of such cases God spoke through the Word.” Jesus continues to bear the name “The Word of God” since his return to heavenly glory.—Re 19:13, 16. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002451#h=1:0

The articles say that with regard to Genesis 22:15-18 Jehovah “used the Word as his angelic mouthpiece” and “texts make clear that he did so (spoke) through an angelic representative.” They do not say that it was the Word, or an angel, who swore the oath to Abraham; the oath was “the utterance of Jehovah” (Genesis 22:16 NWT).

As far as I am aware, they do not say that Michael the archangel is the Word, although they do say that the Word was Jehovah’s angelic mouthpiece. The point is they say both the Word and Michael are created, that they had a beginning. They say the Son of God was only known as Jesus while on earth and that he is known as both Michael and the Word before and after his human existence. They also say that it was the spirit of Michael that entered into Jesus before he was born. They claim that the body of Jesus was disposed of by Jehovah God, dissolved into its constituent elements or atoms. Source: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1953641?q=resurrection+jesus+body&p=par

The man, Jesus, is dead – forever dead – that what came out of the tomb was a spirit creature – Michael. Which rather begs the question, who is coming back? A created angel called Michael?

Edit – Here is the quote that is causing me considerable confusion about the beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses with regard to the relationship between Michael the Archangel and Jesus: "Who, though, was the son whom God chose to be born as a perfect human creature? ...He has rightly been called Michael the Archangel. His life-force having been transferred to Mary's egg cell by Almighty God's power that overshadowed Mary meant that he, Michael, disappeared from heaven. By human birth from Mary, the Jewish virgin, he was to become a human soul." (God's Eternal Purpose now Triumphing, 1974, pp 137-138)

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  • JWs teach that Jesus is Michael and that the title “The Word”also belongs to Jesus. So saying that Michael and the Word are both created and both had a beginning is not exactly accurate. There is one created spirt here. – Kris Feb 13 at 21:47
  • Would it be more accurate to say that Jehovah created Michael the Archangel, who is the Word, and who then became known as Jesus? My confusion arises because the various articles I read say that Jehovah's first creation was a mighty spirit, his one and only Son, who only became known as Jesus when he was on Earth. But Jesus is actually known in heaven as the Word and as Michael the Archangel. I don't want to misrepresent your belifes but I confess I'm struggling with this one. Who is Jesus now, the one who sits at the right hand of his Father in heaven? – Lesley Feb 14 at 8:24
  • For us humans the son of God is known simply as Jesus Christ. Our savior and redeemer. That name was given by God to Mary when the angel visited her. The inspired Bible however gives us glimpses into the heavenly arrangement of things. That is where we find the Son fulfilling various other roles as He accomplishes his Father’s will. As chief of angels he is called Michael in this role he is commander in chief of the angelic army. As God’s spokesman he is The Word. Jesus is also named as commanding an army of angels 2thess 1:7,7 Matt 16:27 1pet 3:21,22. Continued – Kris Feb 14 at 14:00
  • Cont). It would not make sense for God to set Jesus and Michael as rival commanders of angels. Instead both names Michael and Jesus refer to the same person. jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/archangel-michael It would be most accurate to say Jehovah created the Word who became known as Michael(after the creation of the angelic host through him) who then became known as Jesus upon his becoming a human. – Kris Feb 14 at 14:11
  • @Mr. Bond - Please be aware that my answer is not an endorsement of their beliefs regarding Michael the Archangel and Jesus. – Lesley Mar 18 at 17:25
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Jesus is Michael is his pre human existence in heaven and his post resurrection heavenly existence.

“The Word”is a title belonging to Jesus as well.

Jehovah alone is the Almighty God and Creator.

In regards to the promise made to Abraham in Genesis22:15-18

15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

A careful reading of these verses makes it clear that the angel of the Lord (YHWH) is a messenger delivering the promise that The Lord (YHWH) is swearing on Himself to fulfill in behalf of Abraham.

Whether that angel is Jesus or some other angel is irrelevant since the oath is made by YHWH to Abraham. The messenger is not swearing an oath personally nor by proxy. The angel is bringing YHWH’s words, not his own to Abraham.

Think of an attorney reading your grandfather’s last will and testament in which your grand father promised that you are to receive all of his earthly belongings upon his death. Your grandfather commissioned the will, expressed his wishes in it and signed the document in the presence of the attorney. After it is read you understand that you are inheriting your grandfathers estate. The attorney has promised you nothing.

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