0

From this link:

Calvin also reminds us that Paul states that the love God had for us before the creation of the world had always been founded in Christ

From this link:

Calvinists believe that God picked those who he will save and bring with him to Heaven before the world was created

From this link:

Election is an act of God before creation

From this link:

Reprobation is the sovereign decision of God before creation


From the sentences of the quotes above lead me to think that Calvinist teach that the U (from Unconditional Election) is before the creation

but because in my other question, there is a comment like this :
Neither scripture nor Calvin make any statements about mankind before it is created. It would be illogical to do so.

That's why I ask the question.

  • I think you've got your answer there, four quotes from mostly reputable Reformed sources, vs one quote from a single user on this site. It would be better to just ask NigelJ what he means - it's not very clear and does indeed seem out of step with everything else you'd see about the Reformed doctrine of election. – curiousdannii Oct 28 '19 at 6:52
  • @curiousdannii My profile has my website on it and my website has a (business) email address. Anyone can ask me anything which they wish to clarify. No problem. Election is a matter of the Father and the Son, eternally. And election is not a matter of the first humanity. – Nigel J Oct 28 '19 at 7:36
  • @NigelJ Yeah that sounds more typical. I did expect that this was all a misunderstanding. – curiousdannii Oct 28 '19 at 7:41
3

Since virtually it's formation as a school of thought, Calvinism has disagreed about the logical order of God's divine decrees. Generally there have been two schools with the minority (5% according to wikipedia) espousing the pre-lapsarian (lit. pre-fall) view that God elects to save and condemn prior to even create or allow sin. The majority view is the post-lapsarian (lit. after-fall) perspective which holds that Gods election to save and condemn follows the creation and sin of humanity.

Note that given the determinism of the Calvinist view of the world, and the a-temporal nature of God, it is, strictly speaking, improper to think of time before creation but these have been the commonly espoused views about the logical order in which God's commands about how the world would be made, occurred. This means in a temporal sense God elected before creating, but disagreement exists about whether he logically decreed election before or after decreeing creation and the fall.

This is why the majority of reformed theologians and statements of faith can simultaneously claim that God elected to salvation and punishment (temporally) before creating even while almost none of them have been pre-lapsarian. Therefore, the majority have held that at the very least election is logically subsequent to human sin, even while God's plan was established before the act of salvation.

| improve this answer | |
  • Thanks for the answer, ninthamigo. I just don't understand this : post-lapsarian (lit. after-fall) perspective which holds that Gods election to save and condemn follows the creation and sin of humanity. Because I think this view doesn't show "before creation". That's why I ask "before the actual do the creation" how is the chronological sense. (continue) – karma May 1 at 22:29
  • 1
    Between : (A) determine who will be in heaven who will be in hell first - then create the plan on how is the process ---> where the plan is create and make the fall (B) determine all will be in hell first - then create the plan on how is the process ---> where the plan is : create and make the fall, then elect some of them who are in hell. Point-A is "before the creation" in a logical sense. Point-B is "after the creation" in a logical sense. Both point-A and B is before the actual doing the creation. – karma May 1 at 22:44
  • 1
    Point-A is a kind of the story of the potter. Point-B, for illustration : create all vessels which are going to be thrown to garbage, then from all those ugly vessels some are remade to be used as a decoration. – karma May 1 at 22:45
  • I think you understand, although the wikipedia page I cited has a great (colored!) graph that helps too. Yes, the post-lapsarian view does NOT teach election before creation in the logical sequence (although in God's omniscience election is already KNOWN). It teaches God decreed to create and to elect only subsequent to the fall. Pre-lapsarianism says God's election comes before even his decree to create. – ninthamigo May 1 at 23:04
  • 1
    To me, in Prelaps : there is no external factor which causing God to plan thing. Whatever external factor, some who are to be in hell and some who are to be in heaven already determined at first. While in PostLaps, there is an external factor which causing God to plan a salvation - the fall. – karma May 1 at 23:27
2

In the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith, a historic Calvinistic faith confession that is a revision of the Westminster confession and used as a confession of faith by many reformed calvinist church today, state in Chapter 3 (Of God's Decree), Paragraph 5:

Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of His mere free grace and love,11 without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving Him thereunto.12

11 Eph. 1:4, 9, 11; Rom. 8:30; 2 Tim. 1:9; I Thess. 5:9

12 Rom. 9:13,16; Eph. 2:5,12

So for your question What do Calvinists teach about the Election of mankind? Is it before or after the Creation? Mankind was elected for salvation before the creation

| improve this answer | |
  • Thanks for the answer wildmangrove. You wrote : Mankind was elected for salvation before the creation. So, to be precise, do you mean : Mankind was elected for salvation before the actual doing creation ? – karma May 1 at 22:36

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.