-1

I've just read from this link, an explanation by John Piper :

Nobody is in hell that doesn't deserve to be there
and
isn't in active rebellion to God

Because my own interpretation that Total Depravity means:
Before the creation, after knowing that Adam and Eve will eat the fruit, in God's point of view : *none deserve to be in heaven - everybody deserve to be in hell even if there is no active rebellion to Me yet (Adam and Eve has not eat the fruit yet or the generation to come die as a baby) *...

Then it made me wonder, why later on God change His mind into "not everybody deserve to be in hell - some deserve to be in heaven", hence the Predestination/Election ?

If I myself try to answer :
Because God is sovereign
So He is free to change His mind anytime He will.

But that leads me to conclude :
Then it's possible that to the one whom He already elected to deserve Heaven, later on He put him/her back to deserve hell. (Which I don't think this is what the Calvinist view).

Assuming my interpretation of Total Depravity is correct, so my question is : why later on God change His mind into "not everybody deserve to be in hell - some deserve to be in heaven" ?

  • 1
    In my own experience this is not the way in which such matters are understood. Jesus Christ calls his sheep by name and he is revealed to them . . . personally. Striving intellectually to understand Divine mysteries is not the way of the sheep, in my own experience. – Nigel J Oct 26 at 3:11
  • Nigel, do you mean that one of the Divine mysteries is "God change His mind" ? – karma Nov 4 at 3:11
  • No. I would not say that. – Nigel J Nov 4 at 6:57
  • Nigel, I agree. So, if God is sovereign then "God change His mind" is not a mystery. – karma Nov 5 at 2:59
2

No one ever deserves to be in Heaven. Everyone that goes to Heaven deserves to be in Hell... always. Only Jesus deserves to be in Heaven. The rest of us get there by God's free grace, through faith in Jesus, and through Him dying for our sins.

God has not changed his mind on these things.

Total Depravity relates to the individual. It means that a person's whole being has been warped by sin... his will, his desires, his logic, his intellect, his conscience... all of these parts are not what they should be, are not what is needed for a person to be able to come to faith in Christ. Every person has lost the ability to come to Christ, to believe on Christ, or to be saved. All ability is gone.

How then can a person come to faith in Christ? Only by a miracle of God, through the miraculous giving of faith in his word.

  • Andrew, you wrote "God has not changed his mind on these things". I don't understand how it is not "change mind" while at first God has decreed that everyone has to be in Hell but later on it turn out that not everyone is in Hell ? – karma Nov 4 at 3:06
  • Andrew, "No one ever deserves to be in Heaven". Once again, while at first God has decreed that no one has to be in Heaven (because no one ever deserves to be in Heaven) then how it's not "change mind" when later on it turn out that some are in Heaven ? Before a rich Mr.X has any kid, he knew that all his children will against him. So (before the children existed) Mr.X has already decreed that no one of his children will get his inheritance because they don't deserve it. If later on it turn out there is one of his children gets his inheritance how it isn't that "Mr.X change his mind" ? – karma Nov 4 at 3:30
  • @karma - God decided from before the beginning of the creation that no one would go to Heaven by deserving to go. He decided from the very beginning that those going to Heaven would go because of his grace. He had their names in his Book of Life from the very beginning. And they were in the Book because of His grace, not because of anything else. His holy Justice said they didn't deserve to go, but He never intended to listen to his Holy Justice, He always intended to listen to His Amazing Grace. So did He change His mind? – Andrew Shanks Nov 4 at 21:46
  • Andrew, I am sorry as I still don't understand... at first God has already decided not to give His grace to anyone, He condemned all to hell because all deserve it. But later on He decided to give His grace to some ... how it isn't "changing mind" ? And why it seems the Calvinist can not accept that God is sovereign so it's up to Him if later on He change His mind ? – karma Nov 5 at 2:22
  • About "The Book of Life" (BoL).... to me then at first there is no BoL, but "The Book of Dead" (BoD) where He already wrote everyone's name in BoD as He already condemned all to hell. Later on, He moved some names in BoD to BoL. How it's not "changing mind" ? – karma Nov 5 at 2:46

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.