2

1 Thessalonians 1:4
For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you


Before the creation:

A.
Because God love some people
that is why He choose these people

or....

B.
Because God choose some people
that is why He love these people


If there is an answer, I would like to have the verse also as the reason of the answer.

2

Since both the love of God for his own, and the election of God, in Christ, are an eternal matter, rather than a matter of time, I think that the question, in its present form, cannot be answered.

What is made clear in scripture is the following :

I am crucified with Christ; nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. [Galatians 2:20, KJV.]

Three things are made clear :

  • The reason that the Son of God redeemed Paul was because the Son of God loved Paul prior to that redemption.

  • The redemption of Paul was not a corporate matter, but an individual matter. Paul was not redeemed as one of an indiscriminate crowd, but as one personally known and loved.

  • The redemption of Paul occurred before Paul did any good works. Paul only 'now' lived by faith. Only 'now' after redemption is Paul crucified with Christ and walking in the Spirit.

Since the love is called the love 'of the Son of God' (not the love 'of Jesus') what is being drawn to the attention is the Divine and eternal love of Christ, in Deity, towards the man Paul.

If an eternal love, then a love that is not a matter of time, a love that had no temporal beginning and a love that cannot be separated (in terms of time) from other aspects of the Divine knowledge (that is to say foreknowledge) of the man Paul.

Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. [Jeremiah 31:3, KJV.]

  • Hi Nigel, thank you for your answer. To me, it seems that your answer is A. Paul is loved first, that's why Paul is chosen to be saved. Please correct me if I'm wrong. – karma Oct 23 at 16:56
  • Nigel, I'm sorry as I can't understand what is a love that had no temporal beginning. Anyway, if I make a Q&A ... "Why Paul is chosen ?" ... based from your writing, it seems to me the answer is : "because Paul is loved" .... NOT "because Paul is going to be loved". – karma Oct 23 at 17:08
  • @karma Things that are eternal do not have a 'beginning' nor is there any precedence regarding them. They are, eternally. – Nigel J Oct 23 at 17:30
  • That's why I don't understand, Nigel J. To me .... "Eternal (no beginning) love from God to Paul" leads me to conclude "then Paul is also eternal". For a comparison : "Eternal love from the first Person of the Trinity to the second Person of the Trinity" ---vice versa--- "Eternal love from the second Person of the Trinity to the first Person of the Trinity" ---> both of them are eternal. – karma Oct 24 at 8:08
  • @karma Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. Jeremiah 31:3. – Nigel J Oct 24 at 8:16
0

You are trying to make the loving and the choosing two separate issues. Really they are the same.

What does it mean to love?

Romans 5:8 nkjv " But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. "

So the work of Christ, particularly his atoning death was his primary act of love.

What then is his election? Well election is a "choosing". What did he choose us for? Look at what Paul teaches in Ephesians 1.

Ephesians 1:4-6 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He [a]made us accepted in the Beloved.

So we were chosen to be made Holy by the Son (Via the atoning death previously mentioned). The choosing in itself is the first expression of that love. A key doctrine of a calvinist/reformed understanding is that God did not choose us because of anything that we have done or will do. This is the "Unconditional" portion of the unconditional election.

this makes the Gospel of Grace truly by grace, and not by any merit of our own.

eph 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

So to be concise, we can clearly remove option "A" from your question. With option "B" being closer to the understanding. But really the answer is that God's choosing is just the initial expression of his loving, and not really separable. His choosing and his loving are one in the same.

The best consolation we are given as to why God chose is in the above verse from

ephesians 1:5(partial) "according to the good pleasure of His will"

  • Hi L1R, the analogy of A is something like this : after a man fall in love at first sight to a prostitute, then this man take out the woman from the prostitution. So, "take out the woman from the prostitution" proceed after the love. The "choosing event" is the decision whether to take out the woman from the prostitution or just leave her in the prostitution. If it's B, I feel weird that the man choose one prostitute (from other prostitutes) to get her out from the prostitution in order he has the reason to love her. That's why I ask the question. Thank you for the answer. – karma Oct 23 at 16:49
  • Hi Karma, thanks for clarification.The point I was trying to emphasize is that God has chosen us for his own purposes. As opposed to how a man might choose one prostitute for saving because she was particularly attractive to him in some way. The election is not because of some special quality in us that made us more desirable compared to others. – L1R Oct 23 at 20:12
  • L1R, you wrote : "The election is not because of some special quality in us that made us more desirable compared to others". I am sorry I don't quite understand as to me it seems Nigel's answer is A while your answer is B, L1R. And there is another verse which say : "who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (Tim 2:4). So, as you say it's not because one is more desirable to others, Tim 2:4 leads me to conclude : all people are desirable by God to be saved. Please correct me if I'm wrong. – karma Oct 24 at 8:24
  • due to the nature of this site. I tried to answer your question in a calvanist scope. I'm sorry if my answer does not satisfy your curiousity. Calvinism is a nebulous term which means different things to different people, many of which don't conform perfectly to my own personal beliefs. I wish you the best of luck in your studies and encourage you to keep searching the scriptures! Calvinists would point to the verse in timothy you mentioned and use the context to support the idea that Jesus Christ died for "all manner of people" Even foreign kings and those deemed adversarial at the time. – L1R Oct 24 at 16:38

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