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Protestant and Christian denominations have their own founders and many of them have already died. Pope Francis once gave a remark on Marthin Luther that he was a good man., most probably are blessed by the prayers of the faithful members of his founded church and now enjoying the glory in the presence of God in Heaven.

I want to ask the view of Protestant & Christian denominations as they believe in the teaching of "heaven or hell" only. I tend to believe that all deceased different Protestant founders and Christian denominations leaders are already in heaven. Since they do not believe that dead people even those who are in Heaven can hear our prayers. I just wonder why If their founders who are now in heaven would not pray for the welfare of the Church he founded and simply detach from communion with them.

I might be mistaken on my understanding, so I want to ask if the current members was implored to seek in prayers their deceased founder or leaders for guidance and intercession of their founders for the benefit of their church. If not, are their founder no longer in communion with his founded church after his death?

  • I know of a church which claims to be Protestant and practices a form of “Baron de cementerio” called grave soaking. But I don’t know of Protestant denominations mixing Santeria and Palomayumbe with Christianity. – Autodidact May 20 at 0:49
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    What do you mean by "Protestant and Christian"? Asking about every Christian denomination is far too broad. – curiousdannii May 20 at 3:26
  • @curiousdannii the question is very specific and focus only on the deceased founders of Protestant and Christian denominations. – itzsophia's vlogs May 20 at 4:27
  • @itzsophia'svlogs Which Christian denominations? Catholic? Greek Orthdox? Assyrian Church of the East? Swedenborgian? Jehovah's Witnesses? LDS? Oneness Pentecostal? – curiousdannii May 20 at 4:29
  • @curiousdannii i put on a qualifier, only those Christians who believe in heaven or hell after death. As their founders will either go to heaven to be alive in the presence of God in heaven or a dead soul in hell. – itzsophia's vlogs May 20 at 4:49
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I'd like to start by pointing out a small error. 'Protestant' is a branch of Christianity, so it's not grammatically correct to talk about 'Protestant and Christian' as two different things. You might say 'Protestant and other Christian...' (The other main branches are Catholic and Orthodox.)

Now to the main question. Protestants do not in general believe in asking the dead to intercede, no matter how holy they were. Some would say it was an Unchristian practice, but for most it is a preference for asking God directly. This is the case even for founders of movements.

There are different beliefs about whether the dead can hear our prayers or not. Some say the dead are not conscious of what is occurring on Earth, but some say they are. If they are then there is no reason to think they might not intercede on behalf of others.

  • Thanks for your answer, you said it was just a mere "preference", so this preference is not biblical? The other answer coming from Baptist cited Revelation5:8-9 and it described the dead who are now in heaven as "living creatures" not "dead creatures" and they are offering the prayers of God's people. I thought Protestant or as you said Christianity follow scriptures, are they ignoring Revelation5:8-9? – itzsophia's vlogs May 20 at 2:33
  • No they are not ignoring it. Revelation is a complex book and it is not clear that the elders are responding to intercession to them. In the Protestant Bible (which does not include some books the Catholics include) there is no instruction to ask dead Christians to intercede, so both doing it or not doing it could be biblical. – DJClayworth May 20 at 3:55
  • if i may ask, is the founder of the church you belong to already dead? if he goes to heaven after his death as I dont think a founder can go to hell, it would be unfortunate as he did not lived what he preached. Is he a dead creature in Heaven or alive?Is he no longer pleading to God to help the cause of his founded church on earth? – itzsophia's vlogs May 20 at 4:34
  • None of the churches I have belonged to had a living founder, and none of them paid much reverence to the founder. In one case the founder was King Henry VIII, who nobody assumes is necessarily going to heaven. In all cases the founder, like everyone else, is a sinner redeemed by God, and the emphasis is placed on God's work in starting and growing the church rather than the human contribution. – DJClayworth May 20 at 14:14
  • @DJClayeorth so sad to hear that the chosen founder of the churhes you had been to does not become or recognized for their holiness It seems like the Shepherd who teaches salvation had failed.Luke22:32 is a powerful promised of protection of Jesus, but this is only given to the True Anointed Shepherd. – itzsophia's vlogs May 20 at 21:22
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I speak as a Baptist. We believe in sola scriptura, namely all doctrines that are required to be believed are contained in the Bible, and any doctrine not found in the Bible is suspect. To be more precise:

“The whole counsel of God, concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man’s salvation, faith, and life, is either expressly set down in scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men.” —Westminster Confession of Faith

The Bible says very little about the activities of believers in Heaven prior to Christ's return and the final judgment. Here are a few of the things that we know:

  1. From Revelation 6:9-11:

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e] were killed just as they had been.

The Christian martyrs are crying out for God to avenge their blood.

  1. From Revelation 5:

And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll
    and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
    and with your blood you purchased for God
    persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
    and they will reign[b] on the earth.”

The elders (Apostles and leaders of the 12 tribes of Israel) are praising God.

  1. From Luke 16:

    27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

    29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

    30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

    31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Jesus has Abraham denying that the intercession of relatives or even great figures like himself will benefit the lost. He refers all questioners to Moses and the Prophets.

Conclusion:

The benefits of a relationship of intercession between the dead and us is denied. Furthermore, the Old Testament forbids us to speak with the dead. Jesus is not dead, so we may pray to him.

Counter argument:

The OP disputes my interpretation of Revelation 5. So do others:

https://www.ignitumtoday.com/2013/09/15/its-biblical-to-ask-saints-to-pray-for-us/

The above article cites Revelation 5 and argues that the saints in heaven are praying and have no need to pray for their own needs, hence must be praying for us. That is a sensible inference (unless you believe in soul sleep, which many reformers did). It is also true that angels both help us on earth and are not permitted to receive our worship. It comes down to your definition of what constitutes worship, and what constitutes impermissible intercourse between the living and the dead.

Answers to a previous CSE question addressed some of this:

If Protestants won't ask dead saints to intercede because there is no mediator but Jesus then why do they ask living Christians to pray for them?

  • You cited Revelation5:8-9 the four living creatures and 24 elders holding golden vows which are the prayers of God's people, are they not interceding and offering our prayers to God?So book of revelation contradicted your conclusion that intecession between those in Heaven and us is not denied but on the contrary it is being offered for God intervention.Can you clarify your conclusion with Rev5:8-9? – itzsophia's vlogs May 20 at 1:45
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    I do not dispute that the passage in Revelation 5 expresses that the prayers of God's people are being offered to God. We who live pray. Those who have died pray. It is the content of those prayers and their efficacy that is in question. Protestants do not follow Maccabees, which does exhort people to pray for the dead. As for asking the dead to pray for us, we have the Holy Spirit to intercede for us, and Jesus to mediate for us. We living are also commanded to intercede for the living. Most of the activities of the dead are hidden from our view. – Paul Chernoch May 20 at 3:08
  • "We believe in sola scriptura, namely all doctrines that are required to be believed are contained in the Bible, and any doctrine not found in the Bible is suspect." Do you have a reference for that definition of sola scriptura? – curiousdannii May 20 at 3:25
  • Fair question. I included a reference to the Westminster Confession. Mine was not really a definition of sola scriptura, but a consequence. If it is not in the Bible, most Baptist's become suspicious of it. That is not a definition, but a social reality. – Paul Chernoch May 20 at 3:40
  • @PaulChernoch Okay thanks, the WCF says it also accepts things by consequence, which is much more in line with how most people define sola scriptura. Feel free to switch the quote for the parallel from the London Baptist Confession if you like ;) – curiousdannii May 20 at 3:42
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It’s most peculiar to me that this question is asked of Bible believers.

The Bible says that those who have passed on from this life are dead in Christ.

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:” ‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16‬ ‭

Considering these that are dead in Christ are in the category of the dead the Bible forbids communication with the dead in multiple places

There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.” ‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18:10-11‬ ‭

Further you are not even allowed to mutilate yourself from the dead, whether ceremonially, or in honor of or otherwise. They are dead.

“You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the LORD.” ‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭19:28‬ ‭

There is the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Aside from the fact that both Abraham and the rich man are on the other side of death Abraham’s response indicates that the dead can’t do anything for the living, because the living have Moses and the prophets. If praying was an option then why didn’t the rich man ask Lazarus or Abraham to pray for his brothers?

But the rich man argues that if someone like Lazarus, who did not go to the place of torment, were to resurrect then the living will take note and his brothers would change.

In other words those who have crossed over or the dead are ineffective for the living.

I don’t see any examples of Scripture encouraging praying to the dead.

The example of Saul calling the spirit of Samuel the prophet, the text says that an elohim was seen which if you study demonology you will understand this was a fallen son of God, that was seen. He was mimicking Samuel. It wasn’t Samuel’s spirit. The dark side doesn’t have ownership of God’s children and Samuel could not prophecy on his own, he had to hear from God. Not possible that the Holy Spirit would be forced to prophecy through a medium calling up the dead. Too many issues with this passage to claim Saul prayed to the dead. Saul dabbled in sorcery.

Again this is a very strange concept but I get the impression you genuinely believe this is Biblical by the way you’ve phrased your question. Maybe you can show where this has Biblical backing.

The Revelation text you quote 5:8,9 that can be the prayers of the living saints. It could be the prayers collected from the saints in the past. None of that indicates that dead people are interceding in heaven on behalf of the living.

Not to mention there is no name given that has authority, except one. So praying in the name of another like a dead saint is futile.

“And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”” ‭‭Acts 4:12‬ ‭

  • The focus of the question is on the deceased founders of Protestant & Christian denominations.Heaven or hell is only the choice, so im inclined to believe their souls are in heaven and scriptures said in Revelation5:8-9 those who are in Heaven are living creatures not dead creatures. My specific question inquires if members believed their founders is in Heaven, is he not pleading, interceding and offering the prayers of his founded church. its awkward or uncharitable to think that this founders after going to Heaven do not care anymore on the affairs of his founded church . – itzsophia's vlogs May 20 at 3:55
  • @itzsophia’svlogs It’s speculative and there are lots of assumptions and doctrinal differences between what you believe and what the Bible speaks of. Even if everything you speculated is true I’d image they would be in such awe of God’s majesty and beauty they’d be too busy worshipping and adoring Him to be concerned with the affairs of the earth. This question makes little to no sense because Protestants don’t hold your beliefs, so they don’t view things from your angle. It deviates too much from Scripture into the realm of fantasy and speculation. Unhealthy curiosity about the dead – Autodidact May 20 at 10:08
  • @Autofidact those blessed souls who became worthy to enter Heaven had unquestionable virtues in terms of charity.So,how can they forget the affairs and the souls whom Jesus entrusted to them to shepherd.Dont you think all the more this deceased founder would plead and intercede to God to aid the concerns of his founded church? – itzsophia's vlogs May 20 at 10:22
  • No I don’t have any Scripture to back that claim – Autodidact May 20 at 10:34

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