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Since Preterism teaches that the son of man has already come is it safe to infer that they also consider "the Lord's Supper" to be obsolete as well?:

[1Co 11:26 CSB] 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

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  • Full preterists or partial preterists? Dec 18 '18 at 19:13
  • I hadn't thought of that. I guess the more information the better. Thanks.
    – Ruminator
    Dec 18 '18 at 19:23
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No, it is not obsolete because Christ instituted it as a memorial of His sacrifice.

"18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. 19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you." (Luke 22:18-20, KJV)

We still remember the sacrifice He paid, the gift of His life for ours every first day of the week. Although we do not use the word "Eucharist" - from the Greek eucharistia meaning "thanksgiving" - because of the Catholic ritual belief of transubstantiation. It is most often referred to as Communion, or the Lord's Supper, and is a symbolic representation.

It is very interesting that Christ told them He would not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom came. As the kingdom was fully established - or came - at the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70; and as the wedding feast for the marriage of the Lamb to His bride, the church took place immediately after the city was burned (Matt 22:1-14), then Christ drank the wine at the wedding feast in AD 70....in heaven.

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  • Hi Gina, nice to see you again. This site's mission relates more toward the views of different sects rather than "What is the correct view regarding"... Since Preterism aka Covenant Eschatology is not a sect but rather a broader perspective on prophecy in general, it may not actually be possible to answer my question; such interpretations not actually being "tenets" of a denomination or what have you. IE: The details of your answer might not be the views of the Preterist next door. In this case, I am, thanks in part to your prompting more investigation, Preterist but with a different take.
    – Ruminator
    Jun 25 '20 at 1:58
  • why every first day of the week"? And when you say "we" do you mean "all Preterists"? If so, I think I missed the memo! Though I think the question is unanswerable, I think I will post an answer because I think my view is a very logically drawn set of implications from the Preterist view, not because I think it answers the question.
    – Ruminator
    Jun 25 '20 at 2:09
  • I guess I shouldn't say "we" collectively, but every one I know does hold that view. The 1st day, or the 8th day which follows the 7th day as the day the church was born on Pentecost, the 8th day was the cleansing day under the Levitical laws (Lev. 9:1-7; 12:2,3; 14:8-10; 15:13; 22:27; etc.) & was the foreshadow of the cleansing gospel & the day Christ rose from the dead (Matt. 28:1) Do a search on the Eighth Day to see some other comments such as here: thatancientfaith.uk/home/perma/1477516140/article/…
    – Gina
    Jun 25 '20 at 10:51
  • Do you and the gentleman that wrote the article in the link you provided equate the Lord's Day with the Day of the LORD? I'm not feeling this 8th day thing at all. Pentecost comes at the end of the harvest when the first fruits are presented to the LORD as in [Rom 15:16 NLT] (16) I am a special messenger from Christ Jesus to you Gentiles. I bring you the Good News so that I might present you as an acceptable offering to God, made holy by the Holy Spirit IE: Rev 19:14-5 - the raptured 144,000 first fruits of Circa 70 AD..jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12012-pentecost
    – Ruminator
    Jun 25 '20 at 21:29
  • The day of the Lord, or a day of the Lord was prophetic language from the OT for a time of judgment upon a nation or tribe. The 1st cent. Christians began using the "Lord's Day" to refer to their meeting day, distinguishing it from the Jewish Sabbath. Other links r not full endorsements, just more info. Your pt about the first fruits is good, but still when did it happen? On the Sabbath, or on the day after the Sabbath - the 50th day, or 1st day of the week. BTW, Rev. 1:10 "..on the Lord's day.." in a prophesy - more likely a prophetic time of judgment & not 1st day of the week ref.
    – Gina
    Jun 26 '20 at 9:58
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I posted this question. Now I think it is probably unanswerable. Preterism is not a sect (a group with a name aka denomination) but rather those who hold to the general idea that the prophecies of scripture are about the first century rather than the current century. Some hold that only some were fulfilled and they are called Partial Preterists while full Preterists believe that there are no stragglers - prophecies that still need to be fulfilled. I might be considered somewhat of a "hyper-preterist" because I believe that all of the law, the prophets and the psalms, etc. were prophetic of the day of the LORD (the first century) and that now the whole of the Bible is history. In the same way that we read with fascination about the wandering of Israel in the desert and yet we never think that their journey is occurring as we speak. No, as Paul says:

[1Co 10:1-14 RSV] (1) I want you to know, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, (2) and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, (3) and all ate the same supernatural food (4) and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ. (5) Nevertheless with most of them God was not pleased; for they were overthrown in the wilderness. (6) Now these things are warnings for us, not to desire evil as they did. (7) Do not be idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to dance." (8) We must not indulge in immorality as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in a single day. (9) We must not put the Lord to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents; (10) nor grumble, as some of them did and were destroyed by the Destroyer. (11) Now these things happened to them as a warning, but they were written down for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages has come. (12) Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. (13) No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it. (14) Therefore, my beloved, shun the worship of idols.

His myopia is visible everywhere in his treatment of Isaiah and the other prophets but even in the minutia of the Torah:

[1Co 9:7-11, 13-14 KJV] (7) Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? (8) Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? (9) For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? (10) Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. (11) If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? ... (13) Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? (14) Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

If Paul understood his own generation as those "upon whom the end of the ages has come" and that all of scripture is about that fateful generation, then clearly the 21st century is not the end of the ages. The ages that came culmination in Paul's day were the ages of the Jerusalem temple based theocracy.


So that is Preterism. It does not have a creed. There are people who have this perspective and yet hold differing views on myriad finer points.

But while I have a somewhat captive audience I'll toss in my two cents on whether or not the Lord's/LORD's table is still to be reenacted. In my view, no, it is not relevant to this age.


Important disclaimer...

As a truth question, this is also unanswerable. Why? Because it depends on what your view is of the 4th canonical gospel (IE: the gospel of John). This is because, while Matthew, Mark, Luke-Acts and Paul (in 1 Cor 5) all report that Jesus commandeered the Passover meal to be a new Passover, "until he comes", John's last supper has nothing to do with Passover. For him, Jesus died on the day of preparation for the Passover (right at the time that the Passover victim was slaughtered at the temple. (John's "Pentecost", likewise, does not at all resemble Luke-Acts). So it is an unanswerable without providing the context explaining with which gospel writer we are concerned.


But if we presume that Jesus did indeed eat Passover with his disciples on the night he was betrayed and did in fact commandeer the Passover as all about himself we can decide whether or not it is a command to us today or a historical description of the true "Last Days" of a now bygone age. Are the true Last Days in the 21st century? Or the first? Or both but in different ways? I'm thinking that the Lord's/LORD's table is merely an interesting practice by 2nd temple Christian Jews. The practice ended in the first century with the destruction of the 2nd temple:

[Heb 8:13 NET] (13) When he speaks of a new covenant, he makes the first obsolete. Now what is growing obsolete and aging is about to disappear.


The Passover is inextricably linked to the Exodus. This is the origin story of the nation of Israel. They ate the unleavened bread of the Passover meal, not because leaven represented sin (per Paul) but because it took time for leaven to do its work and they were in a huge hurry. Originally the Jews ate the Passover meal standing up - at the ready. Later, due to their indolence, they ate reclining (but definitely not sitting on one side of a rectangular table upon chairs).

[Exo 12:11 ASV] (11) And thus shall ye eat it: with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is Jehovah's passover.

[Luk 12:35 ASV] (35) Let your loins be girded about, and your lamps burning;


So if we understand Matthew, Mark, Luke-Acts and 1 Corinthians 5's perspective and we recognize that the "last supper" was a Passover meal AND we recognize it as an origin story replete with plagues upon "Egypt" (where our Lord/LORD was crucified), we start to understand the "why" of the Passover meal and we correctly apply it to the first century, in anticipation of his immediate return, we start to realize that we are not the ones who are being described in the scriptures we begin to see that we are dealing with history:

[Rev 3:11 ASV] (11) I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown.

[Rev 22:7, 12, 20 ASV] (7) And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book. ... (12) Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is. ... (20) He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus.


The Passover involved:

  • unleavened bread eaten in haste to indicate that there was not enough time left for the bread to rise before their departure. The disciples likewise had to be prepared for Jesus' return because they were to be "caught up to meet the Lord in the air" very, very shortly:

[Mat 24:42 NKJV] (42) "Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.

[Mat 25:13 NKJV] (13) "Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

[Mar 13:33-35, 37 NKJV] (33) "Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is. (34) "It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. (35) "Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming--in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning-- ... (37) "And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!"

Jesus told a parable to the effect that when these events began they must immediately flee the new Sodom/Egypt (Jerusalem) and not look back:

  • [Rev 11:8 NKJV] (8) And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

[Luk 21:20-32 NKJV] (20) "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. (21) "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. (22) "For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (23) "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. (24) "And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (25) "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; (26) "men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. (27) "Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. (28) "Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." (29) Then He spoke to them a parable: "Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. (30) "When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. (31) "So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. (32) "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

[Luk 17:32 NKJV] (32) "Remember Lot's wife.

  • the Exodus was attended by plagues on Egypt (but did not bring about repentance). So the destruction of Jerusalem is described in a series of bowls poured out on Jerusalem:

[Rev 9:18, 20 NKJV] (18) By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed--by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths. ... (20) But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk. [Rev 11:6 NKJV] (6) These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. [Rev 15:1, 6, 8 NKJV] (1) Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete. ... (6) And out of the temple came the seven angels having the seven plagues, clothed in pure bright linen, and having their chests girded with golden bands. ... (8) The temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power, and no one was able to enter the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed. [Rev 16:9 NKJV] (9) And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory. [Rev 18:4, 8 NKJV] (4) And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. ... (8) "Therefore her plagues will come in one day--death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her. [Rev 21:9 NKJV] (9) Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife." [Rev 22:18 NKJV] (18) For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;

  • the bitter herbs called to mind the mistreatment from which the new People was escaping into freedom:

[Exo 12:8 NKJV] (8) 'Then they shall eat the flesh on that night; roasted in fire, with unleavened bread and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

[Num 9:11 NKJV] (11) 'On the fourteenth day of the second month, at twilight, they may keep it. They shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.

[2Th 1:3-10 NKJV] (3) We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, (4) so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, (5) which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; (6) since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, (7) and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, (8) in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. (9) These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, (10) when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

[Act 14:22 KJV] (22) Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

[Gal 4:21-31 KJV] (21) Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? (22) For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. (23) But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. (24) Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. (25) For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. (26) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. (27) For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. (28) Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. (29) But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. (30) Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. (31) So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


In summary:

  • the question is unanswerable because Preterists are not a monolith
  • the truth question is likewise undermined as unanswerable because of John's gospel "not remembering" the day on which Jesus was crucified, nor its import
  • Preterism/Covenant Theology views all prophecy as being about the day/time of the Lord/LORD and that all (or for some, most) prophecy was fulfilled
  • Passover was an origin story for Israel and a type of resurrected and glorified Israel aka the Israel of God and was celebrated for remembering the great significance of the death of the Passover lamb, the haste to leave Egypt that the unleavened bread signified and the way this acted as the birth pains of a new godly nation
  • this was to be celebrated in great anticipation and was to end once the Lord/LORD appeared
  • Jesus appeared in 70ad with tens of thousands of his saint (144,000) who were, in the blink of an eye Circa 70ad, translated out of the land (first the dead in Christ then those who were still living) after 40 years of traveling in faith and hope

Now, that was the Passover. It was a historical event with a meal prophetic of the upcoming deliverance. After they came into the land they were to eat it each year in Jerusalem. However, once the temple was destroyed Circa 70 AD, it was never again possible to celebrate the Passover. The Lord/LORD had come. So too, the Passover was "until he comes":

[1Co 11:26 NLT] (26) For every time you eat this bread and drink this cup, you are announcing the Lord's death until he comes again.

What Jews celebrate today is a Seder. Transubstantiationalists, attempting to celebrate the actual Passover in anticipation of a yet future return of the Son of Man have missed the boat.

Related:

https://shreddingtheveil.org/2017/07/13/the-promised-land-between-the-cross-and-the-kingdom/

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  • While there are no doubt some who mix them together, the Covenant Theologians I know of are almost all amillennialists, and wouldn't say that the Day of the Lord has fully come or that all prophecy has been fulfilled. I don't know much about Preterism though.
    – curiousdannii
    Jun 25 '20 at 3:48
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    Twisty. Wonder what basis you claim John's testimony is not divinely inspired? One of the reasons I don't visit here more is the opinion based nature of the questions & answers rather than the desire for biblical truths. No matter what a denomination, or sect, or group think believes, it is what the Bible says that governs. The Exodus was itself a pattern, a foreshadow of the gospel of Christ. Jesus instituted a new Passover just b4 His death for the everlasting kingdom. All who r covered by His blood have the blood of the lamb over their heads, as in the Exodus. Reminds us.
    – Gina
    Jun 25 '20 at 10:35
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    Post at my site explores some of the patterns of the exodus from the slavery of Egypt to the exodus from slavery & sin of the Law during that 40 years between the Cross and the destruction of the temple. If u want to read it - shreddingtheveil.org/2017/07/13/…
    – Gina
    Jun 25 '20 at 10:38
  • Either John, the disciple who was given charge of Jesus mother at the foot of the Lord as he died is misremembering that as taking place on the day before Passover OR Matthew, Mark, Luke and Paul are false witnesses because they remember eating the Passover with Jesus where he commandeer the celebration it into a NEW Passover. They can't all be correct.
    – Ruminator
    Jun 25 '20 at 10:44
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    Thank you, Ruminator.
    – Gina
    Jun 25 '20 at 12:05

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