There is a well-known 'Bible-difficulty' in John 15:25:

John 15:23-25 (DRB)

He that hateth me, hateth my Father also. If I had not done among them the works that no other man hath done, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated both me and my Father. 25 But that the word may be fulfilled which is written in their law: They hated me without cause.

This is seen as strange, since Jesus ought to know that this phrase is found in the Psalms, and not the Torah. Indeed, it's nigh impossible, according to any view of Jesus, however unforgiving, that Jesus would confuse something in the Psalms with something in the Torah—assuming by 'Law' He meant the 'Torah.' It's also not possible that Jesus would refer to 'the Law' as 'their Law' if He meant the Torah.

However, something in what Jews themselves identify as the Oral Law, the Talmud (which Jesus could definitely be imagined to have—Cf. Mt 15:9—deridingly called 'their Law') in 'The Day [of Atonement]' (Yomha 9b) could be what He is referring to... prophetically:

מקדש ראשון מפני מה חרב? מפני שלשה דברים שהיו בו: עבודה זרה, וגלוי עריות, ושפיכות דמים. . . . אבל מקדש שני, שהיו עוסקין בתורה ובמצות וגמילות חסדים מפני מה חרב? מפני שהיתה בו שנאת חנם. ללמדך ששקולה שנאת חנם כנגד שלש עבירות: עבודה זרה, גלוי עריות, ושפיכות דמים

Why was the First Temple destroyed? Because of three evils in it: idolatry, sexual immorality and bloodshed . . . But why was the Second Temple destroyed, seeing that during the time it stood people occupied themselves with Torah, with observance of precepts, and with the practice of charity? Because during the time it stood, hatred without cause prevailed. This is to teach you that hatred without cause is deemed as grave as all the three sins of idolatry, sexual immorality and bloodshed together.

Now we know that Jesus pretty openly taught that the destruction of the Temple/punishment of the Jews was because of their killing of Him:

Luke 20:9-19 (DRB)

And he began to speak to the people this parable: A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it out to husbandmen: and he was abroad for a long time. 10 And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard. Who, beating him, sent him away empty. 11 And again he sent another servant. But they beat him also, and treating him reproachfully, sent him away empty. 12 And again he sent the third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out. 13 Then the lord of the vineyard said: What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be, when they see him, they will reverence him. 14 Whom when the husbandmen saw, they thought within themselves, saying: This is the heir, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours. 15 So casting him out of the vineyard, they killed him. What therefore will the lord of the vineyard do to them? 16 He will come, and will destroy these husbandmen, and will give the vineyard to others. Which they hearing, said to him: God forbid. 17 But he looking on them, said: What is this then that is written, The stone, which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? 18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone, shall be bruised: and upon whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

19 And the chief priests and the scribes sought to lay hands on him the same hour: but they feared the people, for they knew that he spoke this parable to them.


Could Jesus have prophetically been tying a prophetic Psalm (Ps. 69) in with a prophecy of His own: that the Jews would even write this in their own Talmud?

Thanks in advance.

  • 6
    This question seems more appropriate to the Hermeneutics Stack Exchange (hermeneutics.stackexchange.com) than to this one. – Tim Dec 14 '18 at 16:18
  • Per the help center, you need to identify a denomination for this question to be answered. – JBH Dec 14 '18 at 19:43
  • @Tim Do you know the process of migrating the question? Thanks. – Sola Gratia Dec 15 '18 at 15:31
  • @Sola: I don’t know how to migrate. I usually just copy-paste into the other forum. – Tim Dec 15 '18 at 18:13
  • The best way to migrate is to flag the question and use the custom field to suggest this approach to the moderators. Personally I think this subject matter can be dealt with here, though focusing more on the issue of the textual discrepancy than whether Jesus was prophesying that this would end up in the Talmud. – Nathaniel is protesting Dec 23 '18 at 19:25

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