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The Westminster Confession :

3.1 "God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established."

From this link I get an answer (which I hope I'm not mistaken the answer) that before Adam and Eve exist on earth (including before they eat the fruit), either both of them already destined for heaven or both of them already destined for hell or one of them already destined for heaven.

Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.

Assuming that the word "die" means "die spiritually" I put like this :
A. Before He create Adam and Eve - before Adam and Eve eat the fruit, God destined each human (including Adam and Eve) who will exist on earth will die spiritually.

next :
IF God's Original Sin is in the time-frame AFTER Adam eat the fruit, then "die spiritually" can not be like point-A. So, the one which "fit" with God's Original Sin is :

B. Before He create Adam and Eve - before Adam and Eve eat the fruit, God destined that : IF Adam eat the fruit THEN each human (including Adam and Eve) who will exist on earth will die spiritually.

To me, if it's about baby Cain/Abel/Seth, then point-B "fits" with God's Original Sin. So, it's certain that when those babies will be born, they are already in "die spiritually" condition and the election can happen from a situation like that. One is elected from those who "already" die spiritually. So, the one who is not elected goes to hell.

But if Adam and Eve already destined beforehand (as to me that's the answer to the question before), my own conclusion is :
then there is no Original Sin, because the election itself is not based on any kind of act (including break His Law such as Adam eat the fruit) - but from Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Seth (before they exist, before they do anything - before they are in a die spiritually condition) either all the five of them destined to hell or all the five of them destined to heaven or some of them destined to heaven and the rest destined to hell.

So my question is : From what kind of condition of Adam and Eve (before they exist - before they eat the fruit - before they die spiritually) when they are elected ?

  • 1
    We are encouraged to repent and to believe the gospel in order that we might be saved. Attempts to peer into God's eternal election are but a distraction from what should be our ardent priority during this short and uncertain life. One thing is needful. – Nigel J Jun 14 '18 at 10:39
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The condition of Adam and Eve from the moment of their existence was of making choices dependent upon who they were. Who they were depended upon how they were made. How they were made depended upon God who made them. How they responded to God depended upon how He made them. God is the only first cause. Temptation revealed an inability to keep God's Law/commandment and this inability was put there by God as His creation was not to have the honour of obedience, as this was reserved for Jesus. "I have not come to destroy but to fulfil the Law". Mat 5v17.

  • Your answer is logical. So, the decision (before creating) is to have Adam and Eve incapable to obey the rule not to eat the fruit. So God predestined them (and all their next generations) to hell. Later on, God elect some from all those He predestined to hell to be in heaven. Thank you for your explanation C.Stroud. – karma Jun 22 '18 at 17:22
  • Karma. You say" So God predestined them....to hell". Rom 11v32 puts it , "God committed them all to disobedience" which is not the same as predestination I suggest. God committing proved that they were sinners but that would only be predestination if He had also planned not to save. Rom 11v32 again "that He might-subjunctive- possibility- have mercy. The possibility of having mercy only exists when people have been demonstrated to be sinful. – C. Stroud Jun 22 '18 at 18:08
  • Stroud, you wrote : The possibility of having mercy only exists when people have been demonstrated to be sinful. This is one of the thing regarding my question. Adam and Eve elected from what kind of condition ? Soon after Adam and Eve created, existed on earth before they eat the fruit, are the possibilities like these (a) both of them are to hell (b) both of them are to heaven (c) one of them is to hell - one of them is to heaven. If yes, (imo) then there is no Original Sin. (continue) – karma Jun 22 '18 at 18:46
  • Assuming it's (c) where Adam is to heaven, so then soon after he exist on earth before eat the fruit - then the "mercy" for Adam already there which is not after Adam have been demonstrated to be sinful. In other words, Adam already forgiven before he eat the fruit. On the other hand, Eve - because she didn't get God's "mercy" then she will never forgiven before she eat the fruit. What do you think, Stroud ? – karma Jun 22 '18 at 18:46
  • For illustration : assuming that after Adam eat the fruit, God say to Adam "I forgive you" ---> this happen not because Adam eat the fruit then God have mercy on Adam - but because before Adam eat the fruit, God already have "mercy" on Adam (Predestined Adam to heaven). – karma Jun 22 '18 at 19:03

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