The verse used is Rev. 12:4, but the context takes place in the midst of the great tribulation and not before Adam sinned. Daniel 8:10 seems to confirm that the stars that the dragon flung down were good angels, as he trampled them. Those are the only 2 verses in the Bible dealing with this question that I can find and both infer that the 'stars' were enemies of the dragon not his fellow angels. Is there something that i am missing here?

  • Please form the question in a way that doesn't involve question-begging. You may not take for granted your own interpretation of Scripture ("when no verse supports that") as a premise for the question, unless you reasonably qualify it. – Sola Gratia Sep 19 '17 at 13:30
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    What you are missing is that "sola scriptura" arose over a millennium after the Church was founded, and thus church traditions were formed from a variety of extra-canonical sources. I suggest that you add the tag "early church" since that appears to be what you are asking about. If it isn't, then please add a little more detail on what period, and what denomination, and what concept of "the Church" you are referring to. – KorvinStarmast Sep 19 '17 at 13:30
  • This question can be boiled down to "Why is extra-biblical tradition important?" or "What is the role of tradition in interpreting scripture?" which has been explored in other questions on the site. – Samuel Bradshaw Sep 19 '17 at 14:21
  • Thank you, guys! I think that you both (Korvin + Samuel) answered my question that it is actually not a scripturally supported concept, but merely an unsupported tradition of men. I appreciate the help. – Les L. Sep 19 '17 at 16:24
  • It seems your assumptions are all skewed. The book of Revelations, any association with the end times (as seen through the eyes of a dispensationalist Rapture enthusiast) would seem to embody the Traditions of men, as no such teaching was ever passed on by the apostles but only those who rebelled against the apostles teaching. I've never seen more traditions then those practiced in a bible church. It's almost as if doctrine is made up as a charismatic Preacher reads it. – Marc Sep 19 '17 at 17:08

Your assertion that the emergence of the woman in 12:1 takes place during the tribulation does not appear to be correct, in light of these two verses taken together;

Revelation 1:19 KJV Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

According to this scripture, the Revelation is divided into three distinct sections. Those three are; the things you have seen, those that are, and those yet to come.

Revelation 11:19 KJV  And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

notice that the command to write states have seen, which designates writing at a future date and not at the present; otherwise it would say what you see rather than have seen.

In verse 11:19 begins the opening of visions of the past. Verse 19 comes at the end of the seventh trumpet judgment.

Revelation 11:15 through 18 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.  And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 

beginning with the vision: in 12:1 what we have is a summary of the charges against Satan and the fallen angels all of which took place prior to creation. We know this because;

Revelation 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

These events are referred to in the past tense. notice and went to make war with her seed, and not will go. We have further evidence that these events are in the past due to:

Luke 10:18  And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 

These words of Jesus were uttered 2000 years ago and if it was past then it was surely past when John had his vision.

The Revelation is difficult to understand unless we include the rest of the Bible in discerning what Jesus said.

Hope this helps.  


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