I have a Calvinist friend who told me that before the creation, God already knows the objects of His wrath. (I'm not a Christian).
I question him
- "the objects of His wrath" is in a point of view in the beginning or in the end.
- whether God wants His objects of wrath to repent or not
He gave me Romans 9:20-21 and told me the verse is telling that "in the beginning God has decided to make some are the objects of His wrath and some are the objects if His mercy".
But when I read the verses, I found in verse 22 is telling
What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction?
So I said to my friend that even the writer of Romans still not sure about what he said in verse 20 and 21. This can be concluded when he say "What IF" in the verse 22.
Thanks for his pointing me out Romans 9:20-21 which made me also read the verse 22, it seems to me the answer of my question #2 is more likely (still not sure though) that God wants the objects of His wrath to repent, as the writer of Romans himself put a question on this case in his verse 22.
But then he starts to speak "bla-bla-bla" which to me is vague and not clear. He told me something like this : "Before the creation God knows that ALL (every) man is the objects of His wrath. Still in before the creation, THEN He choose some of them to repent ... so, after the creation He made His chosen one to repent."
To me, his explanation is more chronological in nature. Which raises the question: "Before the creation, before He knows that all man is the objects of His wrath, before He choose some of them to repent, didn't God know who are the one in Heaven and Hell at the end of the world already ?" From this question, it maybe can answer my question #1 : "the objects of His wrath is in the point of view in the end (judgement day)". (still not sure though if this is what Calvinist think or not).
I'm asking here hoping to get a clear answer from an English speaking Calvinist.