God is omniscient and therefore nothing that happens takes him by surprise, and so that Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil must have been something that God expected. And for that matter ordained.

All Scripture is quoted from the King James translation:

Everything I have learned about God from my study of the Bible, tells me that evil has no part in God, and therefore when God created His Kingdom, there would have been no evil. As far as I can determine Evil came into being with Lucifer's rebellion.

Up until the fall there was no such thing as death, and we are told that Satan and his minions were expelled from Heaven, not that they were sentenced eternity in the lake of fire.

Revelation 12:7 through 9 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

God being the loving God that he is had only expelled Satan and the fallen Angels to the Earth, which seems a mild punishment for starting a war in Heaven.

Since there was no death there was also no second death:

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Since the second death is being cast into the lake of fire, it seems that Satan by enticing man to sin thereby providing his own eternal punishment.

  • Good question but I think the evidence you provided is still in question. Was Satan in Eden? Is Rev 12 in the past or future? I hate to say this but do you have any other sources other than the bible to support your evidence. Mar 4 '14 at 15:56
  • @AaronKorn I am stumped by your asking if I have any other proof but the Bible! I didn't know I needed any. But to answer your question about Satan in the Garden here is some scripture which answers that; Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, Serpent of old can only refer to the serpent in the garden. (see next)
    – BYE
    Mar 4 '14 at 16:17
  • @AaronKorn as far as when Rev 12 takes place it is most assuredly in the past. We know that Satan is in the world now, from many scriptures, and if the serpent of old was there in the garden that was shortly after creation.
    – BYE
    Mar 4 '14 at 16:30
  • This question has potential to bring some good answers. I see a close vote on this as "Primarily opinion-based" and I tend to agree, but I'm choosing not to vote that way myself. I think with care, it can be answered from a doctrinal perspective. Would you be willing to make some edits to this to bring it back in line using the guidelines found at Tips for editing a question to make it suitable for re-opening ? Jun 19 '14 at 0:56
  • @DavidStratton I will be happy to modify my question to make it more acceptable or I welcome any edits you might make to achieve that. Thanks Cecil. PS I still am anxious to get input to this question.
    – BYE
    Jun 19 '14 at 11:02

The Bible is only a partial map of God's whole creation (universe) in that The Bible provides us with very little information about other worlds/realms and other creations and occasionally shows us that other creations are able to move into this world but not vice versa. Yet The Bible is sufficient for us and this world. So at best we can only speculate/debate on the other things. In this case The Bible's narrative gives us some hints that Satan already knew about the tree because Satan's first words to Eve reveals that. So more likely Satan and his cronies may have taken the fruits of the Tree in another realm and moreover also from the Tree of Life and thus injected evil into themselves but at the same time negated the side effect of the fruits (death) and achieved immortality. So having lost God's trust in their realm the next thing Satan and his cronies would want to do is to gain allies and numbers. Thus the generous advice to Eve. Here, an important thing is that the sly Satan never told Eve to also take the fruits of the Tree of Life. Once the fruits were taken, the cascading/butterfly effect started including the arrival of sin and death and the domino effect continues to this day till the end days.

God is omniscient in that God can surely preview everything and every possibility to its end, infinitely more than a programmer who created a program and claims to know its every logic, or a chess master who begins a new game and tries to model all possible moves and endings. God already saw the future and gives us a view of it in Revelation. The thing is that because God already knew it, God also gave the warning beforehand in Eden, then gave us the commandments generations later, and finally God gave us Jesus Christ and the Revelation. It was up to Adam and Eve to not take the fruits, and it is up to us to accept Jesus Christ, but then God already knows who will and who won't, but then again we don't know. The decisions/actions we take are ours because we have the freedom, but God already knows our actions/decisions but God didn't/doesn't make them. God already knows the endgame but the moves we make are ours and ours alone, and it's up to us to be held accountable (judgement) for our moves or instead move in sync with Jesus Christ and escape the accountability, but then God already knows who will and who won't. God 'knows' doesn't mean God 'wills' it, 'knowing' and 'willing' are entirely different. So Satan's actions/decisions are Satan's and Satan's alone though God may have already previewed it.

PS: I understand this to be a general category, so please forgive me if my way of answering is wrong.

  • "" more than a programmer who created a program and claims to know its every logic, or a chess master who begins a new game and tries to model all possible moves and endings. "" Where did you get this idea? anyways you are right we cannot wrap our mind on things like God does. Mar 4 '14 at 18:43
  • I have a hard time following the logic of your answer. For instance you say that God pre knows all things, but apparently deny that directs all things to achieve his purposes. At the same time why would Satan intentionally help create death if he knew it would condemn him to eternal torture? Since before the fall there was no death, did Satan even know what death meant?
    – BYE
    Mar 4 '14 at 18:51
  • @AaronKorn Many many contributors here, pastors/missionaries (different denominations) :) Mar 5 '14 at 14:12
  • @CecilBeckum God's direction was always there from the beginning of humans; to Adam and Eve to not consume the fruits, to the generations after in the form of various commandments and covenants, and to us and the future generations in the form of Jesus Christ. We have the choice but as God already knew the future, Revelation reveals to us that there will be still thousands who stand with the devil and against Jesus Christ and God even during the end times. Mar 5 '14 at 14:14
  • @vWil I agree with what you say, my question was whether or not God tricked Satan into bringing death into the world, and thus creating the second death, (or his own eternal punishment in the lake of fire).
    – BYE
    Mar 5 '14 at 14:27

God is, as you mention, omniscient. However, something in your question hints that God somehow wanted men to fall. If that question should ever come to your mind, just remember that Christianity preaches that Jesus (God, The Son), suffered a horrible death to save you. This should quickly clear out any doubts regarding God's true intention as it plainly reveals that God wishes nothing but the happiness and joy of His creation.

Now, back to your question, God needs to allow for a certain degree of freedom in us in order to allow us to love Him. Think about this. Let's say a guy meets a girl and falls in love with her, so then he proceeds to kidnap her and lock her up in his house, he marries her in secret and they live together until either one dies. As ridiculous as this may sound, true love cannot exist in such scenario. For true love to be possible, the girl has to be able to leave, or choose someone else, or cheat, or just not date him, and, being able to do all these things, she freely chooses to stay with him.

God doesn't really need us to love Him, He wants us to, but His glory is not affected simply because we choose not to. BUT, it is US that need to love God. God is love. Christianity teaches that true fulfillment in life comes from the exercise of charity and love. If God hadn't put that tree in the garden of Eden, the scenario would be like that of the kidnapped woman, unable to leave. However, in order to make us truly happy, God let us disobey, and when we did, He came to rescue us from out mistake at the expense of His own life and suffering.

  • You have missed the whole point of the question. Its about Satan creating the second death, which has him being tortured for eternity.
    – BYE
    Mar 7 '14 at 16:14
  • Satan did not create death.. Death is the result of the absence of sanctifying grace. Death entered our realm by sin, that doesn't mean satan created it. We were all called to eternal life, by tempting us, satan participated in our rejection of this gift, without which, we have death. Pretty much like the abscense of light leaves you in the dark.. this doesn't mean you create darkness.
    – arg20
    Mar 7 '14 at 17:46
  • Welcome to the site! This doesn't really have much to do with your answer, but I find that sharing the following tends to help new visitors avoid mistaking the purpose of this site. I do hope to see more from you! When you get a chance, please see How we are different than other sites? and What makes a good supported answer? Mar 8 '14 at 1:07
  • @DavidStratton I understand better now, thanks. I guess we come to this site with many assumptions that aren't exactly accurate. It is useful to look at this site as a secular site and understand the intention behind it. Thanks! I appreciate your comment.
    – arg20
    Mar 8 '14 at 16:34

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .