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One of my latest questions concerned the issue of animal sacrifices in the Old Testament times. (Why were animal sacrifices required for those in the old testament period (but not required of us); if jesus was destined to die for all our sins?). There are verses in the Bible that suggest that animal sacrifice led to forgiveness of sins (Hebrews 9:22; Numbers 15:25 (ESV): and Leviticus 4:20).

One of the responses to my question (above) asserted that it is impossible to have salvation through animal sacrifice. Since childhood, we have been taught that salvation is through Jesus.

The discussion on my earlier question made me ask myself whether salvation and forgiveness of sins are the same thing. If a person had their sins forgiven (for instance under the Old Testament covenant), is that different from salvation?

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    Salvation is something that is experienced. One of the first aspects of salvation that is experienced is the sense of peace and pardon in regard to the sins one has committed, which is conveyed by the presence of the Holy Spirit. Are you asking about the experiences of salvation and justification or are you asking for text references in a doctrinal fashion ?
    – Nigel J
    Commented Sep 9 at 19:45
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    One thing to consider is whether "forgive" includes the consequences of the offence. If I forgive you for breaking my window, does that mean that I'll pay the cost of replacing it myself, or only that I won't be angry or bear a grudge? Commented Sep 9 at 20:50
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    As an Eastern Orthodox I can't really answer this, forgiveness for our sinful actions is one thing, and salvation is a process that occurs over time as we become less and less separated from God.
    – Wyrsa
    Commented Sep 10 at 10:56
  • @NigelJ as a matter of doctrine. Thank you for always taking off your time to enlighten us
    – user68393
    Commented Sep 10 at 12:37
  • @RayButterworth, I was referring to salvation and forgiveness relative to God; not forgiveness between man and man.
    – user68393
    Commented Sep 10 at 12:38

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There is God's salvation from sins that have been repented of through the faith of Jesus Christ (Galatians 2:20), and there is God's forgiveness of sins pre-Christ due also to faith, and through the sacrificial system that was 'time-limited' until Christ should come as the once-for-all-time perfect sacrifice for sin. Only those who had the faith God looked for, while using his sacrificial system pre-Christ, experienced the joy of God's saving grace (e.g. Abraham), with the still-future finished work of Christ on the cross applied to them. Please note, there is a difference between 'sins' (plural) and 'sin' (singular.)

In the Old Testament, when temple sacrifices had been established for God's covenant people, the difference between forgiveness and salvation can be seen when comparing king Saul with king David. Saul committed the sin of presumptuousness by taking on the role of priest for a particular sacrifice to God. This was on the back of many other sins, and culminated in him committing the sin that required death due to having consulted a witch. He died by God's decree, and was not forgiven. On the other hand, David had his own list of personal sins, yet he knew God's forgiveness and he experienced the salvation of God. Why? Because he sincerely repented and sought God's forgiveness. He got it.

Now consider another example with king David and, after his death, king Solomon. This involved a Jewish man called Shimei. The point of this protracted event, commencing with Shimei cursing king David, and not ending till many years later when Solomon notices Shimei breaking the terms of the covenant that had spared his life, is about guilt before God, and unforgiveness of such guilt.

On the day that Shimei raged against God by raging against God’s anointed, he did not die. 2 Samuel 19:18-23. His life was spared that day even though he was guilty of gross sin. Shimei, being spared his life, pursued the matter no further. Shimei did not find it impossible to live without forgiveness. He seemed to assume that, because he had escaped death that day, he had got off with it. Yet David said nothing about not imputing iniquity, and David, who wrote Psalm 32, could not live without confessing his sins to the Lord and without obtaining forgiveness, from the Lord. As expressed here:

“It seems enough for Shimei that his life is spared and that he should continue on earth and live his life without forgiveness. But his sin was still imputed. It still belonged to him and still lay, heavily, to his account.

Now the days of David drew nigh that he should die, 1 Kings 2:1; and he charged Solomon his son regarding… Shimei which had cursed him with a strong curse in the day he went to Mahanaim. David tells Solomon that he swore to him that he would not put him to death with the sword. And David tells the son of David to bring Shimei’s hoar head down to the grave with blood. For Shimei had cursed the Lord’s anointed. 1 Kings 2:9…

Those whom God anoints, publicly, and those whom God sets forth to speak for him, on his behalf, by prophecy (speaking as the oracles of God) are not to be touched or harmed. To do so, interfering with the word of God, hindering the work of God, is to invite the evident displeasure of God Almighty.

So Solomon called for Shimei and told him to build an house in Jerusalem and dwell there, for the day he went out and passed over Kidron… he was to know that he would surely die. Shimei agreed with this covenant and went his way. 1 Kings 2:36-46. But Shimei broke the covenant which he had accepted. This covenant promised life – but only if he kept it. He did not. And he died. For after three years Shimei went to Gath to bring back two runaway servants. His servants meant more to him than his life, and he paid for them with it, for Solomon was aware of it and sent for Shimei and faced him with his covenant breaking.

Moreover Solomon said to Shimei, ‘Thou knowest all the wickedness which thine heart is privy to, that thou didst to David my father: therefore the Lord shall return thy wickedness upon thine own head.’ The wickedness (ra, evil) in his heart was not brought before the Lord that it should be forgiven and cleansed. ‘Create in me a clean heart, O Lord,’ Psalm 51. The iniquity was still imputed. Many have a stirring or two about their sins. But that is not the roaring that is felt when God Almighty presses his hand down upon a man, crushing his inner parts till he is truly humbled, really penitent, genuinely of a broken and a contrite heart, which condition God will not despise.

So Shimei had shrugged off the iniquity which was still imputed. Shimei had been willing to accept a covenant that depended on himself for life. And, in due course, predictably, since his heart was wicked, he broke it. Shimei had been granted space to repent. Time in which to consider his ways. Days in which to meditate on a covenant which required his obedience or, else, would require his death. But Shimei must have had other things on his mind. His servants, for example. Giving Solomon, wise man that he was, the just cause to do as David required.

Shimei’s iniquity was still imputed. And Shimei died, unforgiven by the King, under the righteous judgment of the King. In those days, of course, God had a kingdom on earth under which men could execute such judgments, physically, on his behalf. Now, they occur in other ways. Upon those who blaspheme in such a way that Divine intervention is appropriate, it will fall. Those who harm the prophets of the Lord will be removed out of the way. Let men fear the Lord, and let men tread carefully when he speaks upon the earth.” Righteousness, Nigel Johnstone, pp.57-61, 2012, http://www.belmontpublications.co.uk (Bold emphasis mine.)

The examples provided above demonstrate the difference between salvation and forgiveness (of sin) in the Old Testament.

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Salvation is a category that includes the forgiveness of sins. It is a superset. Different denominations argue about what goes into it and in what order the steps occur (or even if there is an order at all).

Here is what a Calvinist would say is the Ordo Salutis (order of salvation):

  • Predestination
  • Election
  • Calling
  • Regeneration
  • Faith
  • Repentance
  • Justification
  • Adoption
  • Sanctification
  • Perseverance
  • Glorification

Forgiveness would be justification.

Other sequences and lists are listed here: Ordo Salutis

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