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As far as I know, the Christian Faith is that Jesus was the son of God and God's incarnation of Himself on earth. Jesus died and suffered on the cross to account for the sins of Man, who are God's Creation.

Was this because God had Created Man with flaws and realised His punishment and judgement of man for those flaws was unjust and he should take the rap for them?

Does God plan to make a perfect new world where He wouldn't be judging and punishing man, for man's flaws, as is, in this world we occupy ?

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    Up-voted +1. Good question.
    – Nigel J
    Commented May 16 at 2:52
  • Is this a question for people considering themselves "Christians" in general, or is it meant with a specific Christology in mind?
    – Js Witness
    Commented May 16 at 9:27
  • @8Mad0Manc8. Actually I would not say that God punished Himself for the sins of man. I would say that God "sacrificed" Himself for our sins. Not only that but the second person of the trinity Jesus Christ volunteered Himself for our benefit. Only God was qualified to do this because all men are sinners without exception. Jesus Christ as a man was sinless.
    – Mr. Bond
    Commented May 16 at 17:45

8 Answers 8

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In the wisdom and foreknowledge of Deity, it was perceived what the creature would do, simply because it is creature. Nevertheless, there was unanimous agreement within the perfect union of Deity, in God's will and counsel, for creation to proceed.

So great the purposes of the Almighty, so great the love of God for those whom he purposed to be his sons, that the liability of creation was already seen, and already catered for in the wisdom and the righteousness of God.

Thus, in time, promise was made immediately upon the failure of the first humanity, that promise being of another humanity which would yet arise. 'The seed of the woman' would, in time, rise above all and 'bruise the head of the serpent' from above.

God accepted the liability of the first creation, for it was clear that it would it fail. But that first creation was not the ultimate purpose of God. It was a means to an end.

God's purpose was to 'bring many sons to glory' and this is being accomplished in this, the age in which we live.

Multiple scriptures, across all sixty six books of the bible, convey what I have just written.

These truths are simply breath-taking in their scope and in their enormity.

We have been given the privilege and the immense gift of an existence, a being, and a human nature. Spirit ; soul and body : as the apostle says.

And God's glorious purposes are being fulfilled around us and above us as we live out our short and uncertain lives . . . . . .

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  • Are there any bible verses you could mention or quote to provide the biblical basis of your statements? Just saying that "multiple scriptures, across all sixty-six books of the bible, convey what I have just written" is a weak argument without corroborating scriptural proof - anyone could claim that.
    – Js Witness
    Commented May 16 at 9:32
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    @JsWitness The question is asking for self-evident truths. It is a general enquiry from someone clearly seeking general knowledge, background knowledge. Nor does the question seek a specific viewpoint denominationally. This site provides such a service.
    – Nigel J
    Commented May 16 at 11:20
  • I'm not disagreeing with this, but I don't understand how it answers the question (e.g. the word "punish" doesn't even appear here). Commented May 17 at 3:20
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    @RayButterworth my answer indicates a negative reply to the questions in the body of the above contribution. Therefore the header question needs to be re-stated in accord with that result. The wording 'sins of man who are God's creation' attributes failure but does not properly express what that failure is and whose it is.
    – Nigel J
    Commented May 17 at 12:41
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At the outset, Genesis states that God created everything, that it was good, and after he created man, this was "very good". Equilibrium, and perfection. But the potential for damage to the physical creation existed. God's foreknowledge was such that he had the plan of salvation already formed from before creation began. Some will disagree with that, but it is on this basis that I tackle the question about why God dealt with human sin the way he did.

The answer only becomes clear once a true, biblical understanding of what sin is - from God's point of view - has been accepted. The Bible gives that explanation. The book quoted below delves into the matter, showing how and why God lifts up, and takes away the sins of those who repentantly trust in what the Son of God did to enable that to happen. Romans 4:7 is examined to show that they are liberated, or delivered from their sins. They could not liberate themselves; no human sinner can either get their sins uplifted and taken away from themselves, or provide the means to do that for another sinner. Our sins will sink us because sin is lawlessness against God. When we sin, we trespass into forbidden territory; our souls are stained with the guilt of our actions. Now I quote:

"And not only that, but their deeds have caused a gulf between themselves and their Creator. The transgression not only broke a bound, it also revealed that iniquity was within them. Sin separated them from God. Transgressions have consequences. They leave broken boundaries. They leave stains of guilt on the conscience. They damage the relationship of the creature to the Creator. None of this can be overlooked. None of it can be avoided. And it definitely cannot be 'forgiven'. This is a matter of righteousness...

The God who made us ... is righteous... It is an attribute of his divine nature. And he never - ever - acts contrary to his nature." The Burden of Sins, p.p.37-38 Nigel Johnstone, Belmont 2013 http://www.belmontpublications.co.uk

It is because the holy, righteous God deals righteously with sin, and does so in order to redeem fallen creation and repentant sinners from the eternal consequences of estrangement from himself, that the Son of God agreed to come to Earth to die as he did. His death brought the righteous wrath of God for sin upon the sinless Son, "who became sin for us" - in our place (2 Corinthians 5:21). Christ Jesus suffered the punishment for sin that we should receive. He suffered devastating estrangement from the Father, that we might be brought close to him. He experienced the vileness of sin in his own body, on the tree, that we might be cleansed and lifted up as new creatures in Christ (1 Peter 2:24). Regarding 1 John 3:5, that "he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin", the book continues:

"A careful reading of this passage indicates that this is said of the Father. We shall see him as he is, verse 2, speaks of seeing the Father manifested in the Son. And verse 5 speaks of God manifested in the flesh, in the person of the Son.

For this purpose was God manifested. To take away sins. "Take away", in the Greek, is airo. It means to bear up or to lift up, just as we saw in the Hebrew word nasa, uplift. In this place, 1 John 3:5, the word for these deeds is hamartia - sins. For, in this context, these deeds are seen as that which is contrary to God himself. Specifically, to the Father. Who is the very one, manifested in the Son, who shall take them away. But they are the same deeds. Also, they are transgressions.

Almighty God is he who will take them away. In the Son shall they be borne at a time when Jesus cried, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?... Only he who is everlasting... who can see the beginning from the end and the end from the beginning. Only he can do this.

The actual action of bearing the sins is described by airo. They are borne away. Carried off. Taken up. By another. Taken away by one able to do so. By the only one able to do so. God, himself, manifested in flesh. And that which is, thus, preached - by he who is, thus manifested, is aphesis. Only he who was manifested to take away transgressions could preach aphesis. None other can...

Aphero is to be unburdened. To arrive, phero, carrying a burden, but to go out, aphesis.

I see no meaning relating to "forgiveness" or the misunderstood and inappropriate technical term, "remission". I remit when I pay for something, apparently. I provide a remittance. Money, yet again, cropping up in spiritual matters. No thank you.

Aphesis, the noun, is the state of being unburdened. Aphiemi is the verb. Unburdening is preached. It is preached - only - by him who bore the burden himself. None other can preach this message. None other is qualified, authorised or able to do so. It is the sole prerogative of the sin bearer to preach deliverance - directly and individually - to each one for whom he, personally, was such a sin bearer...

God manifest in the flesh is the messenger of the covenant, the Testator of the Everlasting Testament, and the sin bearer who preaches aphesis to the captives and to the broken." (Ibid. pp. 45-47)

This biblical view of sin is far removed from that spoken of by those who think sin is really just "missing the mark" - as if a bit more practice at aiming the arrow and firing it from the bow in their hand will solve the problem. No, God knew from before creation what sin would do to his good creation. He so loved it, he became the sin-bearer so that his righteousness would be satisfied in dealing with sin the way he did.

By pouring out his righteous judgment on sin, on the person of Jesus Christ, sin was dealt with. It was not minimized. It was not swept under the carpet. There was no other way to bring sinful humans into sweet, unbroken fellowship with himself. Just as he took the initiative in creating, he took the initiative in restoring that broken creation. This will enable "a new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness will dwell" to yet arise out of the old, corrupted creation (2 Peter 3:12-13). And, already, repentant sinners have become "new creatures in Christ" (Ephesians 4:23-24).

So, the answer to the main question in the heading is fully covered in the bulk of this answer.

The answer to the subsidiary question in the second paragraph in the OPs question is "No."

The answer to the subsidiary question in the third paragraph in the OPs question is "No" but needs qualification, as it is the second half of that question which remains fundamentally flawed, skewing the whole question.

Yes, God will make a perfect new world “in which righteousness will dwell” as my answer says, quoting scripture. But the second half of the question says, “where He wouldn't be judging and punishing man, for man's flaws, as is, in this world we occupy ?” It’s quite nauseating to refer to the horror of humanity’s sins as “flaws”. Did the sinless Son of God really suffer what he did for mere “flaws”? Cannot flaws just be tweeked, or swept under the carpet? At the outset my answer deals with that. Only once we accept God’s just condemnation for our sins can we humbly fall before him in true repentance. God was righteous in his response to sin entering this world, he was righteous in how he dealt with sin, and his righteousness will fill the new earth. It’s all about the righteousness of God, whereas many keep referring to what man can do to ‘improve’ or ‘correct’, which minimizes the reprehensibility of man from Adam to this very day and our culpability. So, “No” to that last subsidiary question.

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  • Why is the third answer "no"? Do you need to update this to reflect the OP's correction to my edit?
    – Matthew
    Commented May 17 at 19:30
  • @Matthew Thank you for bringing to my attention the edit the OP made to his Q, on the basis of your query to him. There are now only two subsidiary Qs following the OPs main Q, so yes, I need to change my conclusion, which I will do next.
    – Anne
    Commented May 18 at 8:00
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As far as I know, the Christian Faith is that Jesus was the son of God and God's incarnation of Himself on earth. Jesus died and suffered on the cross to account for the sins of Man, who are God's Creation.

Correct.

Was this because God had Created Man with flaws?

No; Man was Created perfect, but also with Free Will. The "decision" to Sin was Man's, not God's. (See "Did God Create Sin?". Note that my use "Man"/"Men" — especially when capitalized — is intended in the original sense which refers to all of humanity and makes no implication as to sex/gender.)

Nevertheless, God knew that Man would sin and planned for that in advance; see also Nigel's Answer.

Was His punishment and judgement of man for those flaws unjust?

No, God's punishment is not unjust. Man was told the consequences and Sinned anyway. God sent His Son because He is gracious and merciful to us sinners. Imagine a parent whose child is caught committing a crime.

Many parents, out of love, would be willing to take the consequences on themselves in order to shield their child. So, too, God, out of His great Love, takes the consequences of our Sin upon Himself that we might be Saved from everlasting condemnation. This is the clear teaching of all of Scripture; that God's Love is such that He takes our place that we might be rescued from the punishment we rightly deserve.

Does God plan to make a perfect new world where He wouldn't be judging and punishing [men for their] flaws?

Yes. In the fullness of time, God will restore Creation, at which point Men will no longer be under the power of Sin, and thus there will be no more Judgment.

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  • Thanks for the answer it sounds rational. Adam and Eve were created with freewill Eve bites the apple and then gave it to Adam. This gave them knowledge of good and evil and to be able to determine which actions are morally right or wrong just like God. God then removes them from the garden, to fend for themselves as they are no longer innocent. However the serpent was the one that tempted Eve, and if that hadn't happened, man would still be in the garden. However, Eves curiosity led her to be tempted by the serpent. Would you not consider that a flaw and an imperfection?
    – 8Mad0Manc8
    Commented May 17 at 16:01
  • @8Mad0Manc8, it depends what you mean by "flawed"... and, more particularly, it is necessary to understand God's Purpose in allowing Man the capacity to Sin. That deserves its own question, e.g. If Adam and Eve were perfect, why did they choose to sin?, and consider also Why did God allow the Fall?.
    – Matthew
    Commented May 17 at 19:27
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This is a tough question because of several things but I will begin with the most obvious.

According to Scripture regarding Jesus's words regarding his relationship to God, he always claimed to be God's son, not God. The Pharisees and Sadducees often claimed him to be blaspheming by making himself equal to God by saying this - but it is also worth noting that Jesus had to regularly correct them for their traditions being taught instead of truth. There is enough evidence to support both groups being incorrect in their judgement of the statement "I am God's son" to mean I am God. This is not the time to take their word over Jesus's word, as if he were the one making the mistake.

So by God punishing Jesus in place of us, he is punishing his firstborn son, Jesus, in our place. He chose to come down to Earth, maintain perfection to the letter of the law, and be punished for doing so by receiving the accursed death that we deserved to receive. By his perfect life being substituted in place of the one lost by Adam, that life (and the right to all subsequent perfect lives that he could have gone on to have) can take our place if we choose to accept it by:

  1. Believing that he is the son of God
  2. Learn his way and the pattern he set
  3. Place faith in that sacrifice by trying to follow his pattern of living (in other words, by transforming your life into a life that matches his, to your best ability)

So true to the question, God in fact did not punish himself. He sent his son, who willingly accepted the assignment, to come and suffer our fate for perfectly fulfilling the letter of the law, thus replacing it with a better way that could save us. The law was sin's end, and no bull or ram could ever save any of us because their life did not correspond to a human life, only represented the need for an innocent life that needed to correspond with ours. By fulfilling the law and putting it to rest, he brought a better way through faith that we can accomplish with God's help through faith in Jesus, having laid the foundation through his giving up his perfect life needed to release us from slavery to imperfection. No human on Earth possessed the perfection required to pay the price Adam gave up and cursed us with since Adam was the first, passing on nothing but imperfection.

The entire bulk of the Greek Christian scriptures is summed in this statement and is supported by many scriptures, least of all being:

  • Col 1:15-18
  • John 17 in full
  • Romans 12:1-3
  • Hebrews 11 in full
  • 1 John 5:3
  • John 5:17,18
  • John 20:16-18
  • 1 Corinthians 15:20-28

Best wishes, seek the truth with all your heart and safe travels.

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    Actually Jesus did claim to be God. John 3:16 teaches that Jesus is the one and only Son of God as in there are no others by nature. Christians are sons of God by adoption. At Matt 26:63, the high priest ask Jesus to swear as to His identity. "You tell us by the living God whether (1) are you the Christ/Messian and (2) the Son of God. At Luke 22:70 Jesus says, "Yes, I am." At vs65 the high priest accuses Jesus of blasphemy, why? And answer this question? Why would the Jews accuse Jesus of blasphemy when they claim to be the sons of God as well? Like so many today, the Jews did not believe Him.
    – Mr. Bond
    Commented May 16 at 20:56
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Why did God punish himself for the sins of man?

In order to restore mankind from it’s sinful nature to the friendship of God and a state of sanctifying grace, a price had to be paid. God deemed it necessary the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity must pay that price of our redemption on the Cross.

Mankind was not inherently created sinful, but that all changed when our first parents decided to disobey God and eat of the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. For many Christians, this is known as the ”original sin” which destroyed man ‘s friendship with God and mankind lost that sanctifying grace that mankind needed in order to remain in God’s friendship being holy, pure, without flaws and concupiscence. That original sin destroyed everything damaging man’s nature to such a point that only God himself could restore that which was lost by our first parents.

If one man shall sin against another, God may be appeased in his behalf: but if a man shall sin against the Lord, who shall pray for him? And they hearkened not to the voice of their father, because the Lord would slay them. 1 Samuel 2:25

For centuries, the Catholic Church has sung the Exsultet at the Easter Vigil calling the fall of Adam that happy fault that gain for us such a great Redeemer.

O certe necessárium Adæ peccátum, quod Christi morte delétum est!

O felix culpa, quæ talem ac tantum méruit habére Redemptórem!

O vere beáta nox, quæ sola méruit scire tempus et horam, in qua Christus ab ínferis resurréxit!

O truly necessary sin of Adam, destroyed completely by the Death of Christ!

O happy fault that earned for us so great, so glorious a Redeemer!

O truly blessed night, worthy alone to know the time and hour when Christ rose from the underworld!

It is the Godman who died on the Cross, but death is something that is experienced only by the human nature, because the divine nature of the Second Person of the Trinity (Jesus Christ) is not capable of experiencing death.

This is the mystery open to our contemplation of how God allowed himself to be punished in order to restore mankind to sanctifying grace and friendship with the Divine Trinity and open the doors to heaven for mankind.

God not only created the universe, He sustains it by the very power of His being. As Paul said, “In Him we live and move and have our being” (Acts 17:28). If the being of God ceased for one second, the universe would disappear. It would pass out of existence, because nothing can exist apart from the sustaining power of God. If God dies, everything dies with Him. Obviously, then, God could not have perished on the cross.

Christ died in our place because there was no way we could pay the debt ourselves. - Anselm on the Incarnation

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First, God does not make mistakes. If he did, He would not be God.

A little over a year ago, I shared a little homily with some Christians at a small church in my hometown. In my introduction I said, "God did not have a plan B." From a very human perspective, we are tempted to think of Adam's fall from grace necessitating a plan B from God. That idea is flawed. It is certainly not biblical.

From eternity "past," God had only one plan. Call it plan A, if you like. Or call it "the long view of things." The fall of Lucifer and the fall of the Adamic race did not take God by surprise. God was not somehow forced to scramble to come up with a plan to undo the damage done by sin. The Scriptures tell us time and time again that the salvation of humankind began in eternity past. (I am aware that speaking of a "past eternity" is inaccurate, since eternity and time exist in different realms of existence. Before God created time, there was only God, or YHWH, the eternal "I AM" of Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58).

The Bible speaks of the things done by God before "the foundation of the world" (see, for example, John 17:24; Ephesians 1:4; Hebrews 4:3; Hebrews 9:26; 1 Peter 1:20; Revelation 13:8; and Revelation 17:8). In a sense--in a Divine sense, the redemption of humanity was a fait accompli in the mind of God before the earth's foundations were laid in place and time came into existence.

In a sense, God did indeed punish Himself for the sins of the human race. Eternity's plan of redemption cost God a great deal. John tells us that He loved the world in this way: He gave us His only begotten Son, the one in whom He was well pleased (John 3:16; Matthew 3:17; Matthew 12:18; Matthew 17:5). However, God was not punished for making a mistake. He was punished for doing what was impossible for sinners to do for themselves; namely, to pay for their sins!

With Jesus's death and the declaration of his dying words, "Accomplished!", our sin debt was paid in full, our sins having been nailed to the cross (Acts 2:23; Colossians 2:14). Jesus's atoning sacrifice for sin took place in time, but it was formulated by "the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God" (Acts 2:23).

In conclusion, God's Plan A was birthed in His love for the world, a world which He created and declared to be "good" and "very good" (see Genesis Chapter 1). Notice, however, that what God created He did not declare to be perfect. Perfection exists within the province and character of God alone. No created thing, including angels and human beings, can surpass God in any way. Had our first parents been content with being just good (or very good), they would not have chosen to partake of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (a merism in Hebrew; see Genesis 2:9).

Was our fall from grace inevitable? Yes. Was that fall God's fault? God forbid! God's Plan A was and always will be perfect. The response of God's elect should always be

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen. [Romans 11:33-36]

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On your question if "Jesus suffered and died, because God had created Man with flaws and realised his punishment and judgement of man for those flaws was unjust and he should take the rap for them?" - the answer is No. God created Adam and Eve perfectly, without flaws, but with a free will.

God gave the first human couple everything to their disposal to live perfectly. He did not create robots, but wanted the crown of his physical creation to love and honor Him in joy forever. Without free will there is no Love, for it is an intrinsic motivator that cannot be programmed into someone. Unfortunately Adam and Eve forfeited their ideal situation by giving in to temptation by Satan. The fact that Adam and Eve failed was not God's fault, and His arrangements to pay the ransom through Jesus Christ, was done out of Love and undeserved kindness towards humanity, and not out of a feeling of guilt or bad conscience (John 3:16).

Did God Almighty foreknow that the first human couple - and with them humanity - would fail? There is nothing in the Bible that suggests that. There is the predestinarian view, but it is not upheld by the Bible holistically (more info on God's selective use of foreknowledge can be found here).

Does God plan to make a perfect new world where it wouldn't be judging and punishing its own creation for its own mistakes?

God's ultimate plan from the beginning was for a world without the necessity of judging and punishment. Would Adam and Eve not have sinned, and created offspring in their perfect state, they would still be living today as well as their immediate offspring (unless they would have sinned later). God loves us and he believes in humanity being capable to remain loyal to him, and through Jesus' redemptive sacrifice He has payed the legal price to deliver humanity from sin, once and for all!

Before they sinned, Adam and Eve had access to the "Tree of life" (Genesis 2:9). The Bible does not indicate that it had inherent life-giving qualities in its fruit; instead, it represented God’s guarantee of everlasting life to those he would allow to eat of its fruit.​ In Revelation 2:7,10 in the letters to the seven congregations, Jesus states: "To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’" and "Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life."

Paul spoke about everlasting life when he wrote to Christians in Rome: "And [God] will pay back to each one according to his works: everlasting life to those who are seeking glory and honor and incorruptibleness by endurance in work that is good;" (Romans 2:6,7)

At Revelation 21:5, we read what God says about the things he will make new. Note that God doesn't state: “I am making all new things.” Instead, He states: “I am making all things new.” YHWH will make the earth and humans like new by bringing them to a state of perfection, such as Adam and Eve had when they were "new".

Mankind’s perfection will be relative, limited to the human sphere. Yet it will certainly afford those gaining it the ability to enjoy earthly life to the fullest degree possible. God’s ‘tenting with mankind’ shows that obedient mankind is meant, those toward whom God’s face turns with approval. (Psalm 16:11; Revelation 21:3; Psalm 15:1-3)

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    I do not think "God had created Man with flaws". Adam and Eve were created morally and physically perfect. That changed when they sinned.
    – Ken Graham
    Commented May 16 at 15:03
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    Totally agree - yet that was what the OP question claimed/stated, which I responded to in my response.
    – Js Witness
    Commented May 16 at 15:11
  • Down voted for 'God not foreknowing' that Adam would usher sin and death into humanity. Commented May 18 at 19:06
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One problem with much of modern Christianity is that it seems fixated on such things as punishment, penance, purging, and self atonement.

  • One gets the impression that personal physical suffering will somehow make one a better person or that there are things one can do that will somehow cause one to be saved.
  • One also gets the impression that God (and eventually the saved) can get pleasure from the suffering of those that don't follow his way.

Neither of these ideas are part of true Christianity, and are certainly not supported by the Bible.

  • There is absolutely nothing than anyone can do to earn or deserve salvation. Salvation is an undeserved gift from God.
  • God is a god of love and forgiveness, not of hatred and vindictiveness.

The universe was created with many physical laws and rules. For instance, if you step off a cliff, the "law" of gravity means that you will fall. When you fall off a cliff, your resulting injuries are not punishment for breaking the law of gravity, they are simply a direct consequence of applying that law.

Similarly God also created spiritual laws, which aren't so immediately obvious. One is, "if you sin, you will die". Again, death is not a punishment for sinning, it is a natural consequence of sinning.

Compare it with a human parent and child. The parent tells the child do not climb trees, do not run out into the road, do not … , because such activity could result in injury or death. If a child breaks these rules and does get injured, would it be reasonable to think that the pain is punishment from the parent for disobeying them? Would it be reasonable to think that the parent enjoys seeing the result?

Similarly God tells us, do not have sex outside of marriage. This not because there is anything inherently wrong with this activity, but because (like running out into the road), it will often result in bad consequences (broken marriages, abandoned children, disease, etc.). These things are not punishments for disobeying, they are direct consequences. It is not reasonable to think that God gets pleasure from seeing this happen.


The question includes:

… his punishment … take the rap … punishing its own creation …

This is the wrong way of looking at things. There is no punishment, only natural consequences.

At one level, there are specific rules for behaviour (e.g. the Ten Commandments), and disobeying those rules can result in natural physical consequences (not punishment).

At another level, there is a natural spiritual law, that those that disobey the rules will die. Again, this is a natural consequence, not a punishment.

God can't break his own rules, but he can make use of loopholes. In this case, he chose to uses Jesus's undeserved death to replace the death that sinning humans would naturally receive.

God did not punish Jesus. And so God did not punish God. Jesus voluntarily sacrificed his physical self, shedding his divinity and risking his immortality, in order to satisfy the rules. Purposeful sacrifice is not punishment.

God wants people to develop perfect character, in his image, naturally following God's rules. Most people eventually will (many as part of the second resurrection), and they will be given God's gift of immortality, not because they earned it or deserve it, but because that is what God wants. But a few people will reject God's way of life, and these incorrigible people will experience a final and permanent death and no longer exist. But again, this will be an inevitable consequence, not a punishment.


Does God plan to make a perfect new world where He wouldn't be judging and punishing His own Creation for His own mistakes?

Yes, God does plan to make a perfect new world, and it won't involve punishing anyone, but that is already true of this world too.

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  • Let's discuss in chat. (Note: see chat room for original context that was mod-nuked.)
    – Matthew
    Commented May 17 at 19:32
  • 2 Thessalonians 1 disagrees with you. There is an avenging punishment that is coming. It is higher and other than natural law, born of wrath and altogether righteous. Commented May 18 at 19:27
  • @MikeBorden. There are various translations of 2 Thessalonians 1, many possibly influenced by the beliefs of the translators. In 1:8 for instance, NLT says "judgment" rather than "vengeance", and most versions translate 1:9 as "eternal destruction". Judging people and condemning some of them to a final death (of non-existence) is not at all the same as vindictively sentencing people to an eternity of torture in Hell. Commented May 19 at 3:08
  • Verse 6 has recompense: 1) in a good sense, to repay, requite 2) in a bad sense, penalty and vengeance. I don't know why you bring in "vindictive" as though it were spiteful rather than vengeful: Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord, I will repay. It is a repayment that is more than a mere consequence in that it is meted out deliberately and justly by the Lord. As Adam was expelled from the garden of God's immediate presence so the wicked will be expelled from God's presence. Unlike Adam the wicked will have no access to mercy and grace. Everlasting destruction from God's presence. Commented May 19 at 12:29

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