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The Son only has to exist if Man needed to saved, He is not inherent by any means. Likewise, a similar argument can be made for the Holy Ghost. How, then, can all three Persons of the Trinity be uncreated, inherent in God's nature, yet work out perfectly in order for His plan of grace? I am looking for a trinitarian, Bible-based answer, although Catholic tradition or papal statements may be included as way of explanation.

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  • "The Son only has to exist if Man needed to saved" Why do you think this is the case?? A strong argument for a multi-personal God is that God couldn't be inherently and eternally loving if he was unipersonal.
    – curiousdannii
    Mar 29 at 22:50
  • I have read this argument, yes - but why, then, a Son? Why a Holy Spirit? Why not just 2 equals? Furthermore, why would a God have to be loving at all? Mar 29 at 22:52
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    This is getting into a very speculative area of theology. People do have various ideas, but they're not definitive. But I'd suggest for now that you focus on improving your question by justifying the claims you're making.
    – curiousdannii
    Mar 29 at 23:07
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    This seems to me to be personal opinion and does not equate to any systematic theology that I recognise. It is completely contrary to Trinitarian doctrine as set out at Nicaea and as further developed over the centuries. It appears to me to be wholly eccentric and personal to the OP (unless the OP can show some research and some cited references to the contrary).
    – Nigel J
    Mar 30 at 6:26
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    IF Man needed to be saved? And have you never read that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are co-eternal and co-equal? I'm afraid I don't understand your question since you have not provided any sources that might explain your thinking. As it stands, your question is likely to attract opinion-based answers.
    – Lesley
    Mar 30 at 8:24

4 Answers 4

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This is neither a shallow nor a quickly explained aspect of the nature of God so I'll keep it short; questions and pushback will abound either way.

The Son is Logos (John 1:1), which is to say not just the spoken word and not just the concept behind the word but including the rational mind which conceives the concept. To suppose God without the Son (Logos) is to suppose God without a rational mind.

This same God has perfect, infinite integrity such that there is no ontological difference between who He is (Father), what He says (Son/Logos), and what/how He does (Spirit). If the Father has personhood then so does the Son and so also the Spirit. Not modalism (as in 3 different parts of one God) but Trinity (as in one God revealed in three persons).

Prior to and irregardless of the creation of man He is God: Father, Son, and Spirit.

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The Bible is clear that God was not created, that he is without beginning and without end, therefore - eternal. There is no "if" about that, as your comment clarifies.

The question is asking about God's "form", how it is perfectly suited to salvation. But (problematically) the Bible states that God is Spirit, and nobody has ever seen his form. Yet the uncreated, eternal Holy Spirit has been seen at a particular time as the dove at Jesus' baptism, while the logos manifested at one particular time, at the incarnation, as the uncreated, eternal Son of God.

The logos (Word of God) incarnated at one particular time as Jesus Christ. But God is Spirit and nobody can see his form and live, yet people have seen Jesus Christ on Earth, and lived. This provides the answer to the main question, for the logos became flesh at a particular point in time, in order to die to save sinners. The Father sent the Son, who agreed to come, and the Holy Spirit was the agent involved in all of that. All three persons of the Trinity were involved in this miracle of salvation.

It was not "God's form" that was "perfectly suited to salvation" (as the question supposes) for God Spirit is. The Holy Spirit is likewise Spirit. But the logos, the Word of God, could and did become perfectly suited to salvation. He

"made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." Philippians 2:6-8 A.V.

The Father and the Holy Spirit continued (as they were, so to speak) communicating with the logos who was now made flesh as the man, Jesus, enabling the perfect will of the Father in heaven to be carried out through the willing Son on Earth. All three persons of the Holy Trinity were involved in working out the plan of salvation. The logos, made flesh, could not have become flesh without the Holy Spirit and the Father working together from the incarnation through to the resurrected Christ ascending back to share the throne of God in heaven.

The trinitarian answer is that all three Persons of the Trinity were equally involved in creation as they were in executing the plan of salvation for fallen creation to be restored. All mainstream Christianity - Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant - are agreed on this.

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    The "if" is not asking, it is prefacing an assumption - it could easily be replaced with 'since' . Mar 30 at 18:02
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God is infinite fullness. There is no place in Him for necessity as He is complete. Light does not need a darkness to illuminate to have a purpose. Water does not heed a thirsty mouth to exist.

Whatever Jesus as the Word and Son of God is, he is. If His particular share of the fullness that is God is the thing needed by a lost sinner to be saved, that is what he is. He does not just give eternal life, he is the eternal life. When the only three persons in the universe were the members of the Trinity, the Son gave himself to them perfectly and perpetually. Did they need salvation? No, because they had the Son always in perfect unity. They never lacked what one would need to lack in order to need a salvation that they did not have.

In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. - John 1:4-5

Some translations, in place of "overcome it", say "comprehended it". The darkness does not understand the light.

The Son is suited for salvation because in him are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, as it says in Colossians 2:3. If all the treasures are in him, then none are missing. If something is needed for salvation, then everything should cover it. Everything fits every need.

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John 1:1 says

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.

God has no beginning and he has no end that is why he is called the uncreated creator. God came as a man because he knew if he came down himself everyone would be afraid of him so he came as a man to come and save humanity, to wash all our sins, he died on the cross for us and experienced so much pain for us, because of the love he has for mankind. After the resurrection of Jesus Christ before Jesus ascended to heaven he promised us the holy spirit to lead us in all our ways. Jesus was going to prepare a place for us in heaven, that is why he left the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit leads us to direct our path and shows us the way I am going to give an example for instance so many people follow the same road we follow and that very day you want to go out and something is about to happen then there is a spirit that told you not to go, it is the Holy Spirit speaking to us at that moment or that period in time and the Holy Spirit also teach. There are many things the Holy Spirit does that I have not mentioned here.

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