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Eze 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him

Which are the countries/locations mentioned here in this verse? When I heard some sermon long back, the preacher was comparing it with some countries. What is the authenticity of that? What present day countries are where Gog and Mogag are/were/will be, and how can we verify this?

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I'll be interested in any answers, but to the best of my knowledge all offerings on this are speculations and simply: we don't really know –  Marc Gravell Jun 29 '12 at 6:18
    
Joel Rosenberg lays out a strong case for Gog being Russia in Epicenter –  warren Jun 29 '12 at 13:32

5 Answers 5

up vote 5 down vote accepted

I am a professional archeologist. Many end times aficionados believe that Magog represents Russia and that Russia will soon come to invade Israel. However, the ancient Assyrians had dealings with Magog, which was also called Lydia, and their Court records clearly identify Magog and it is not Russia. For decades Christians have been deceived and have been unwittingly deceiving others about who is to be involved in the prophesied invasion of Israel. Russia has absolutely nothing to do with Magog and being the nation that will lead an invasion of Israel.
The Assyrian Royal Court dealt with each of these nations directly about 100 years before Ezekiel wrote, and their records are reliable, clear and detailed. These are the same records that are referred to in Ezra 4:15 and the same records used to verify the historical events written about in scripture from circa 800 B.C. to 400 B.C. These records represent the primary source on this subject as opposed to secondary sources which are often not based on facts and very often the product of mischief, bias or lack of study. Any reference to Josephus is of no avail because historians and archeologists know from a multitude of written records, that the Greeks (such as Herodotus) did not call Magog the Scythians. All of our earliest copies of Josephus come from eleventh century Monks and the passage that is often referred to is clearly a forgery for several reasons obvious to historians and archeologists who study the ancient Near East. Please consider taking the time to read my report Debunking the Russia/War of Gog and Magog Myth on this important subject that recently appeared in the Christian Post Blogs on March 15, 2012.The link is http://blogs.christianpost.com/guest-views/debunking-the-russia-war-of-gog-and-magog-myth-8754/#more. This report can also be found on my blog site for 2/9/12: http://www.newscientificevidenceforgod.com/search?updated-max=2012-03-19T18:07:00-07:00

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+1. Thanks for the nice answer. welcome to the community. –  Jomet Jul 5 '12 at 5:38

I find that in a subject like this it is good to compare Christian speculations with Jewish speculations and see if there is any common ground. I found that both Jewish and Christian sources think the most likely location was present day Turkey.

For example here is a Jewish source I'm finding more and more useful for Jewish things:

“the most reasonable identification put forward is with Giges, also known as Gogo, king of Lydia, and Magog, with his country.”

Lydia is in present day Turkey.

Also a Christian view from Gills Exposition found here says this:

in Pliny (o), that the city of Hierapolis in Syria was called by the Syrians Magog; and they fancy the name of Gog is the same with Gyges a king of Lydia, whose country was called from him Gygea, or Gog's land, who was grandfather to Croesus; and which country came into the hands of Cyrus, and from the Persians into the hands of the Greeks, and so to the Seleucidae.

It would seem therefore that Gog, the King of Magog was a people that were attached to Israel in history, and therefore must have lived nearby. Yet even more importantly we should notice that Gog and Magog in ancient Rabinic literature always refers to the Gentiles who would opposed Messiah in the last days. In fact Jewish mystical interpretation (Kabbalah) superstitiously has a method of calculates numbers from Hebrew letters from the words Gog and Magog = 70. This means all the Gentiles. For details of what the Jews expected see this post.

Furthermore the New Testament also keeps up the theme. In Revelation we find Gog and Magog representing the Kingdom of the Devil about to wage war against God’s people. The only difference now is that Christians see themselves as spiritual Jews, so the historial meaning of Gog and Magog is very strong in terms of prophetic belief:

When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth —Gog and Magog —and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:7-10)

Conclusion: Maybe God has purposefully ensured that we have lost concrete history to truly identify this country, because we are no longer to take it literally. Rather we are to take it as representing the world during the last days.

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+1 I liked the conclusion very much! –  Jomet Jun 29 '12 at 17:45
    
This was an absolutely excellent post. Great work. +1 –  Jas 3.1 Jun 30 '12 at 5:47

Magog is included in the "Table of Nations" in Genesis 10 as one of the sons of Japheth after the Flood. It's generally accepted by conservative scholars that the descendents of Japheth were mostly caucasion people who ultimately settled in Europe, so Magog would likely be white and European.

The ancient Jewish historian Josephus says that Magog is the nation that the Greeks call Scythia. (Book 1, chapter 6) Scythia was on the northern coast of the Black Sea. They spread out north and east from there. Thus, their territory would overlap modern Russia. Many people who believe that Revelation will be fulfilled in the near future identify Magog with Russia. (I have no idea if modern Russians are descended from Magog or just occupy a similar territory, or if anyone knows.)

Gog has been identified with the Goths, a Germanic people who originally came from Scandinavia but then migrated south and settled on the west coast of the Black Sea. (It was Alaric the Goth who sacked Rome and is generally credited with destroying the western Roman empire.)

Note this puts Gog and Magog occupying adjacent lands. (A fact that I must admit I never noticed until today.) It would thus be plausible for Ezekial to name them together.

The above is not by any means the only interpretation. I just did some Yahoo searches and found several Moslem sources that identity Gog and Magog with the United States. I found another source that put Magog in modern Turkey. Etc. But I think the theories I mention above are the most popular in conservative Christian circles.

Disclaimer: I'm far from an expert on this subject. If someone here knows more, I'm interested to hear it.

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Yahoo??? Seriously??? –  Ignatius Theophorus Jun 29 '12 at 7:02
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(-1) It bothers me a little to get an answer on C.SE that includes "I just did some Yahoo searches" and "I'm far from an expert on this subject". I feel like this should be deleted. –  Jas 3.1 Jun 30 '12 at 5:51
    
@Ignatius Umm, why is it illegitmate to use Yahoo to search for information on the Internet? If you don't believe that it is possible to find useful information on a web site, why are you visiting this one? I rather thought one of the big values of the Internet was that it made it possible to store vast amounts of information from many sources and people can access it through search engines. –  Jay Jul 5 '12 at 4:28
    
@Jas3.1 What a curious objection. RE "Yahoo searches" See my reply to Ignatius. Or do you mean that you think it is cheating to do any research before posting an answer? As to my admission that I am not expert, surely most of the posts on this site are by people who have not spent their lives studying the particular question. I posted what I knew with a frank admission of the limitations of my knowledge. Do you only make posts here on subjects on which you are a recognized international expert? –  Jay Jul 5 '12 at 4:34

Ezekiel 38:2 is giving us information about Gog. He is the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal ruling in the land of Magog. Only one country, Magog, is mentioned. There could be more then one tribe in Magog, but the chief prince of the tribe of Meshech and Tubal is ruling at that time. It is obvious that the tribes of Meshech and Tubal were united or mixed together, and has only one leader.

Ezekiel 38:4
And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

This Magog is doubtless the present day Turkey, the ancient Lydia. It could not be Russia, because Russia have never invaded, conquered and ruled over the Holy Land, but Turkey had. Hence Turkey can fulfill the ‘turn thee back’ but not Russia in Ezekiel 38:4. How to turn the Russians back home, when they have never invaded, conquered or ruled in the Holy Land before, but the Ottoman Turks had. God had turned the Turks back home, and will soon put hooks into their jaws, and will bring them forth to the Holy Land again to punished them. This time the Turks will come with many declared enemies of Israel.

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Lovely, this is quite a fresh article. I am not a specialist in any field (I might know more in one or more fields than most do), but I bet that my input might be interesting enough to spark a response from the most scholarly of individuals.

First off, before we delve into History, and Archaeology, we need to make a few things clear (mainly, religion and politics). Islam, Judaism, Christianity and Catholicism are the Four Main Religions in the world. (The reason why I differentiate Christianity and Catholicism is purely because - its ancestors... ah... assassinated Jesus and the Apostles. So ye, big difference.)

Moving along. Politics is a very important thing to consider before getting into History or Archeology. First off you need to understand how Governments in general are run. You need to understand that the law and order of all government is subject to the will and whim of the rich. American Legislature was shaped by the rich. European Law was formed by the wealthy. The people, the middle class feed the noble-upper class tax. The military hover between the people and the elite. And ever single country in the world (all 200 and more) has a history, has a tiff, a past, a vendetta, a feud against some neighboring nation, community, province, state or family. Every country has its fair share of grudges. Those grudges are SOCIALLY past on from one generation to the next, via culture. Culture becomes HIGHLY racialised and prejudice through the force of Pop Culture (all cultures has some kind of oriental/indigineous origin - and it's generally PASSIVE and not dangerous, excepting the Incas, Mayans and Vikings - but who knows? Maybe someone wanted to tarnish the history of those people with lies.) __My latest discovery is that every single CIVILIZATION starts out young... when they get old, they sort of mature, but almost always they take on some sort of communist, socialist and fascist form of government: one party, no separation of powers, everyone totally uninterested liberty and freedom. China and Russia are brilliant Examples. Mao killed 80 million, hitler killed six million, and some more I believe. The sad reality that I discovered through observing Civilization is that even the oldest (Egypt), which was, I think 8000 or so years old, came to an end. I believe it was the Romans who destroyed them. Something to do with Cleopatra no doubt.

Gog and Magog.

Germany is a very new country. (You'd have to study some politics to know that.) Germany used to be part of several different countries, including The Vatican, The Roman Catholic Empire.

Russia (along with all the other Germanic tribes) is where this term barbarian comes from. Russia is humungous, but it has a primitive military to the Commonwealth and America.

Catholicism predates Christianity (not Classical Judaism), but it took on that name Catholicism when Christianity appeared, to accommodate Christianity. (Catholicism is simply the idea that all religions must come together.) The Politics of Catholicism and Islam is exactly the same, the cultures and ancestry of the Roman and Arabian people are very different. Roman descendants are naturally more philosophical, and the Arabian more religious. Both Superpowers are one in their opposition against Christianity, Judaism and Classical Judaism.

Asia, for thousands of years (and still) has been raped and pillaged by many dictators. Japan, during Tokugawa period assassinated 35 000 (an entire province) of it's Christian sympathizing citizens. Ghengis Khan and the Monguls pretty much paved the way for Mao and Pol Pot to rape asia of it's agriculture and the strength of it's good people.

Africa seems to be the resource hub of the world. And so technologically it is mundane. Technology and civilization create a far too rapid way of doing things. Indecisiveness and Mistake making are the Key Characteristics of advanced Civilizations. Africa has some part of peace due to it's lag.

America and Europe and the Commonwealth (whether they like it or not) have completely inherited the banner of Judeo-Christianity. It does not matter that America has a Muslim Leader now, or that UK seems to favour Socialism, they are Judeo-Christian territories.

Australia fits in with the UN and USA. All the little islands speckling the sea are scientifically speaking perfect locations for forms of government, technology and science that civilizations are not yet ready for.

Civilization is created out of bloodshed. Whether we like it or not, ancestry and culture enjoy passing those grudges onto the next generation.

Gog and Magog are mentioned in the Book of the Apocalypse (Revelations). Most people do not like this book, but the third verse clearly states that whoever reads it aloud will be blessed.

There are three characters in this book: The Harlot, The Beast and The Antichrist. You need to pay close attention if you want to know who Gog and Magog are. I will just discuss the three for now.

The Harlot is the one who was drunk on the blood of Jews, and the progenitor of prostitution culture. All old civilizations in the world are guilty of these two things. And the Harlot is accused of making the whole world drunk. The Empire with the largest territory in the world is without a doubt the Catholic Empires. During the Black Plague it Horded 40% of the worlds gold. The first Empire was THE EGYPTIAN. The Persians eventually conquered it, then the Romans used Islam to concur Egypt and the middle east. Islam and Catholicism have the same business interests. Classical Judaism is extinct. Christianity has taken over from Traditional Judaism. Modern Judaism still has traces of the Old. When Jesus died his parting words were to FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY DO. Jesus loved the Jews, he was a Jew. Islam and Catholicism are the Harlot. Christianity and Judaism are exempt from that title. There are two peters mentioned in the book of Acts. The Sorcerer Simon of the Romans, known throughout the empire, he became the first pope. No connection whatsoever with Christianity. Peter the apostle, and not the sorcerer, was a very brave sort of individual, but kind of never minded. His shamelessness is what made it so easy for his honor to be taken from him and given to Simon Peter the Roman Sorcerer. The former Pope was a member of the Nazi Youth. All the Shieks, Califats and current Pope represent the Whore of Babylon. (Middle East and Europe) < Yet there is a divide. The Commonwealth is also the tribe of Israel... and Revelations talks about the weeds and the tares so go figure.

The Beast is said to have 10 horns. The harlot rides the beast. Controls it. The beast is America. Islam and Catholicism are reigning supreme over the republicans, democrats, libertarians and veterans. FEMA has divided America into TEN REGIONS. So, again, go figure. That's pretty plainly laid out. And America is also apart of the house of Israel. Weeds and Tares. The Middle East is massively included into the house of Israel as well, minus all the criminals (as in any other country, land, territory).

The Antichrist is a single individual given power by Apollion. Humans do not live forever. Therefore that Spirit passes on from one individual to the next. Who is the most evil individual in the world now? I don't know. I could guess, but it would have to be the leader using military power to cause the most unnecessary bloodshed in the world. This would have to be the current pope.

For ease of interest:

The Harlot: Catholicism (The Whole World) The Beast: America (The Superpower of the world) // your mascot has to look cool The Antichrist: The Current Pope (The dude with all the power is unmistakably this guy)

Christianity: Is the wheat among the tares. And the book of revelations says to let them grow together. At an early age to trim and toil where possible, but when they age, leave them alone. When the angels come to end this world, everything will be divided up. Divide and concur? The true Kind of kings knows how to truly divided this world up.

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Hello, and welcome to this site. I hope you will take the time to read our help, and about pages, browse the other questions and answers, and read about what makes a good supported answer. Here, the question is about Gog and Magog, and yet you explicitly avoid answering this specific question despite the many tangential discussions. –  James T Oct 17 '13 at 18:17
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There are other specific things I could argue about, including external references, tone, and specific historical points, but since there isn't actually an answer here to the question which was asked, I'll hold off for now. –  James T Oct 17 '13 at 18:19
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Welcome to the site. I'm glad you are participating. This is way off base for the quality of content the community here prefers. First, we explicitly avoid eschatology unless it is from a denominational perspective, second, we source content that might be controversial, and third, we actually answer the questions. Please see this meta post and others linked there to learn about most of our policies. I hope you come back –  fredsbend Oct 17 '13 at 22:46
    
Does this article answer the question? –  Steve Oct 18 '13 at 13:30

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