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I was preparing a lesson for Sunday school and came across this passage in the teaching material:

Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding, who set its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the line on it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 38:4-7)

The NIV uses "angels" instead of "sons of God" implying angels were present at the creation of the earth.

So my question is, when were the angels created, exactly? Was it on day one of the "Creation Week"? ... Was it before the first day of Creation? (How is that possible?) ... Was it "outside of time"?

Please use Scripture to support your answer. I am also curious whether the passage I quoted relates to the answer (do "sons of God" refer to angels), and if so, how?

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If it is of any help, the Hebrew translations say 'All sons-of GOD'. – Matt Jensen Jun 11 '12 at 6:24
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This is a very interesting question. I am thinking we would need to start by determining whether the Bible even talks about the creation of angels. I am not sure whether the "Creation Week" includes the creation of things in "Heaven" (vs. "heavens"). Also, even if Job 38 does reference angels, I'm not sure it proves they were present at the beginning of the Creation Week; often the entire Creation Week is referred to as a single event ("the beginning", etc.) so God could have been "laying the foundations" throughout the Week. – Jas 3.1 Jun 11 '12 at 19:50

3 Answers

up vote 4 down vote
+100

Thomas Aquinas cites Psalm 148 in STh Ia 61,1 (Whether the angels have a cause of their existence?), holding that the word "they" in verse 5 refers to all of what is listed earlier in the psalm:

Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host! 3 Praise him, sun and moon, praise him, all you shining stars! 4 Praise him, you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens! 5 Let them praise the name of the LORD! For he commanded and they were created

He seems to be following Augustine here. Compare City of God Book XI, ch. 9, where Augustine cites Psalm 148 and also cites a similar passage from the Prayer of Azariah Canticle of the Three Young Men in Daniel 3 (this portion of Daniel is considered apocryphal by some).

Augustine seems to take it for granted that Job 38:7 refers to the angels, and actually uses this passage as the starting-point in his argument that the creation of the angels is included in what Genesis calls the creation of light (because the angels already existed when the stars were created). I don't know what text of Job he would have had, but he quotes it thus:

Quando facta sunt sidera, laudauerunt me uoce magna omnes angeli mei.

Literally, "when the stars were made, all my angels praised me in a loud voice". The entire (relatively brief) chapter is basically one fascinating answer to your question.

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Interesting. Thanks. – Jas 3.1 Jun 17 '12 at 3:22
It seems like Augustine was referencing an alternate translation of Job 38:7. Your reference to Psalm 148 is the most compelling argument I've heard that angels were created. It also seems to indicate they are "grouped together" with the rest of creation, lending credence to their creation during the Creation Week. I also appreciated the bit about them being created during the creation of light - I had never heard that before. This was all very fascinating to me. – Jas 3.1 Jun 19 '12 at 20:08
I really don't know anything about the editions of Scripture that Augustine had access to. I assume he read Greek and knew the Septuagint but I might be mistaken about that. If I'm right, though, then he may have produced the Latin text above on the fly from his memory of the Septuagint. Or perhaps he used a Vetus Latina text? – Ben Dunlap Jun 19 '12 at 20:47
Also you might be interested to have a look at Daniel 3:52-90 in a Catholic or Orthodox bible. This is the canticle of Hananiah, Azariah, and Mishael. Apart from being a magnificent prayer, verses 57ff. are like a lengthy expansion of those first few verses of Psalm 148. That's what I referred to above (slightly incorrectly) as the "Prayer of Azariah". – Ben Dunlap Jun 19 '12 at 20:52
Could you link it? – Jas 3.1 Jun 20 '12 at 0:41
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up vote 3 down vote

There is nothing in the Bible that definitely says when the angels were created. All we know is that it was before mankind, and that they sinned before man sinned. We know this because the Devil tempted Adam and Eve.

However, there is a history of conjecture that put the angel’s creation at the first day. I provide an example quotation here for reference:

When the angels were first created, those creatures of light, they found God as it were laying the foundations of the heavens and earth; whereon all those “sons of God shouted for joy,” Job 38:7. They rejoiced in the manifestation that was made of the power and wisdom of God in the works which they beheld. Hence it is justly supposed that they were made on the first day, when only the foundations of this glorious fabric were laid, Genesis 1:2; wherein they were able to discern the impressions of his wisdom and power. (THE WORKS OF JOHN OWEN VOLUME 20, Page 347)

Note: The idea of 'son of God' simply means those who bear his image. Adam and Eve were by nature the 'sons of God'. They stood in relation of 'sons' to God by the communication of his image and likeness. On the same account the angels are frequently called the 'sons of God'.

All of John Owen's works can be found here.

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Two questions: (1) How does the Devil tempting Adam and Eve prove that angels were created before man? Couldn't the creation and fall of angels have occurred between the creation of man and the fall of man? (2) Could you provide any references to the claim that the angels are frequently called 'sons of God'? (I recently read a paper by a theologian claiming angels are never referred to as 'sons of God'.) – Jas 3.1 Jun 11 '12 at 18:30
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1)The devil tempting man only proves agels existed before the temptation. It is from Job that people think of them as being created before any material was created. As angels had a beggining time was created with them.2) For the common translation of sons of god to angels I mean like in this context, the NIV traslators use it this way so it is common. Gen 6:2 in NIV says sons of god, which seems to just mean the church members. I take sons of god as a loose term to be interpretated based on the context. Traditionaly Job is taken as angels and Gen 6:2 as the church, or elect. – Mike Jun 12 '12 at 1:19
So to summarize your argument, the angels were created before the earth because some people interpret Job 38:4-7 to mean that they were created before the earth. It seems like that was already evident from the OP, so I feel compelled to down-vote. – Jas 3.1 Jun 17 '12 at 3:43
@Jas3.1 - No offence. Yes you are correct, I think the answer was already built into the question. I was saying that the angels were created before the earth because that is how many of us interpret Job. – Mike Jun 17 '12 at 6:07
up vote 2 down vote

Angels were created

Exodus 20:11 (KJV) 11For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is...

John 1:3 (KJV) 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (emphasis mine in both verses)

From these verses we see that angels were indeed created.

Job 38 refers to angels

It does seem that Job 38:4-7 is referring to angels. The other places in the Bible where this phrase (the Hebrew "ben elohim") is found are Genesis 6:2-4, Job 1:6, and Job 2:1. There is debate on whether the "sons of God" in the Genesis passage are angels; however there seems to be a consensus that the Job passages are referring to angels. This, plus a lack any other suitable candidate, suggests that these "sons of God" were angels.

Angels were created before the earth

Job 38:6-7 (KJV) 6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

God uses a building analogy, referring to the "foundations" and "corner stone" of the earth. He says, in a very poetic way, that when the foundations of the earth were laid (i.e. when the earth was created), the sons of God (angels) shouted joyfully.

This would indicate that angels were created before the earth. So when was the earth created? The earth is present in Genesis 1:2 and the first day ends in Genesis 1:5, so the earth was created on day 1. For angels to be present when the earth was created, they must have been created on or before day 1. Since angels seem to be within our space-time (Daniel 10:13), I conclude that angels were created on day 1, before the earth.*

Conclusion

A survey of Job 38 and related passages indicates that angels were created on the first day. As with anything the Bible does not explicitly state, I would not be dogmatic about the issue, but after searching the scriptures, this seems to be the best solution.

*This passage says that a demon prevented an angel from contacting Daniel for 21 days. My conjecture is that for this angel be delayed for 21 days, he must be part of our space-time. I freely admit that this is pure speculation on my part, but I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption.

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Ex 20:11 - sometimes "heaven" / "heavens" refer to the natural skies, space, etc. How do we know this is referring to the realm of angels? Also, can you elaborate on how Daniel 10:13 indicates that angels exist within our space-time? Aren't there similar passages about God, who does not exist within our space-time? (I'm up-voting because you did a great job of finding Scriptures that are on-topic, but I would love to see some of these arguments strengthened if possible.) – Jas 3.1 Jun 17 '12 at 3:46
True, "heaven" has multiple possible meanings; however, even if Ex. 20:11 doesn't include angels, they must be included in John 1:3's "all things". I will edit to clarify my "space-time" comment (I didn't originally because I felt that it was a minor point). – Brian Koser Jun 18 '12 at 1:22
Very interesting addendum. Thanks for adding this. I also appreciated your use of the early chapters of Job to add context to the passage in question. – Jas 3.1 Jun 19 '12 at 20:07

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