(the question title isn't quite right; I welcome any better phrasing - it is not intended to sound inflammatory)

This is a genuine question, that regularly occurred to me during my youth, and was recently reminded to me by an answer fragment:

... However, the death of Christ on the Cross is such an infinite payment...

I always had trouble with this. It is honestly not intended to dismiss the suffering of someone being tortured to death, but in the context of Christ as an infinite being in the trinity, capable of miracles, healing, resurrection and immortal heavenly life, this seems... quite a minor event. And indeed, many many people have suffered similar treatment on all sides of religious quarrel (or non-religious, for that matter).

Likewise, the sacrifice of God in "giving up" the Son - again, in the context of a being that is either many thousands of years, or ageless (in that time cannot be applied), a 30-something year stint on the earth (where God is omnipresent anyway) before re-ascending seems... an inconvenient errand rather than truly giving something up.

It is probably way too late to save my wondering, but what is (/was) the reasoning that I missed on this?

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The state of humanity without Christ is so poor, that we require someone stronger than us to save us. This doesn't make the act of salvation any less "saving." When I help a child accomplish a small task, it's not the amount of my required effort that determines if my act is helpful. It's the fact that the child was incapable on his own to accomplish the task. – Flimzy Sep 7 '11 at 23:15
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You are exactly right. The conclusion you have drawn is based on a commonly made premise. Far too many Christians do not even realize the non sequitur on which they based their understanding of Jesus's time on earth. It is however, a false premise. I hope I can explain why.

For someone with the power and strength that we claim Jesus commanded, the actual process of death on the cross was a small thing. Even ordinary men could and did endure that. It was a particularly arduous and painful death, but some of Christ's later followers were fed to lions or burned alive and did it with a song on their lips. Yet Jesus sweat blood just THINKING about the ordeal he was going to go through on the cross1. Does this mean that Christ's followers had more stamina than he did? That the creator of the universe was scared of a little physical pain? No. There was something else at work.

What made Christ's death different was what happened behind the scenes. While the Romans were busy crucifying his body to a cross, something much more serious was going on. As he hung there, God measured out on him the full force of his collected wrath against sin and sinners. This was the infinite wrath of an infinitely holy God against an infinitely great offence. With this wrath God CRUSHED his own Son2. No mere mortal could ever bear that wrath even pared down to the punishment for his own deeds, much less those of another. And another and another.

That's a lot of infinites I just used. The infinitely holy part is hard to even fathom, but that's what we say God is. Just as he is pure, holy, and 100% loving, he must be 100% hating of anything that is not worthy of love. We have committed an infinite sin because our offense in refusing to obey God is an offence against an infinitely good being, hence deserving the ultimate consequence.

However the value of the sacrifice offered was also infinite. The person that who bore the infinite wrath was himself of infinite value, making his death valuable enough to pay the debt. The very person of God himself give himself up to death. That death was not just a physical terminating of his bodily functions either. That part happened as well at the hands of the Romans, but much more importantly he was separated from the Father. On the cross he cried out that he had been forsaken3. In that moment he experienced the death (separation from God) we deserve.

In doing so he conquered it and in rising he demonstrated his power over it.4,5

As for the second part of your question, it wasn't the measly 30 something years that made it a big deal, it was his position and stature. If I give you an hour of my time that's not much to you. If a friend gives you an hour that's something more. If some celebrity gives you an hour that might mean something more. If the President of the US gives you an hour (however not hard that is for him) that becomes a significant event -- even if you don't like that president.

Now who this God is -- is nothing less than the King of kings and LORD of lords6. His time and attention are of infinite value.

  1. Luke 22:44 (ESV) And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly; and his sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

  2. Isaiah 53:10a (ESV) Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt,...

  3. Matthew 27:46 (ESV) And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

  4. Romans 6:9 (ESV) We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.

  5. Acts 2:24 (ESV) God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it.

  6. Revelation 19:16 (ESV) On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

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great answer, I think you covered some great points that really bring the infinitude of the event to light. It's incredibly hard for us to even fathom this, but you managed to put it to words in a way that made sense for me. – Kyle C yesterday
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The biggest reason the death of Christ is so significant is because he absolutely did not deserve to die. If the first Adam had remained free of sin, he also would not have died, but by sinning he allowed death into our world.

When Jesus came into our world as fully human, he still remained sin free (despite temptations). There was no reason for him to die since he was as God had intended for men to be. Even though he did not need to die from sin, he still offered himself as a sacrifice. Even though he knew he was to come again, he still had to endure punishment for our sins.

Another thing I've considered is that since God exists outside of time, anything which happens to him (death on a cross, punishment for our sins), happens to him for eternity. If one day is like a thousand years to him (and I'd argue it would be more), how long has he been suffering for every sin I've committed?

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How can you say he's outside of time in one sentence, and speak of him (rightly so) in terms of time in the next? He created time, yes. But don't assume that he kept himself outside of it. "by his own blood he entered in ONCE into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." (emphasis mine). When he said "it is finished," that was it. – The Preacher Sep 8 '11 at 2:40
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I have long mused on what it means for an eternal God to enter into our temporal existence and die; in some mysterious way it seems he is eternally experiencing the cross. And, unlike us, who quickly forget pain, he never forgets. – Software Monkey Sep 8 '11 at 7:07
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Also, don't forget Gethsemane, where he sweat blood as the guilt of the world was laid on his shoulders and he wrestled with submitting his will to his Father's. – Software Monkey Sep 8 '11 at 7:09
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I think his resurrection is a lot more important than the mere fact that he died.

Death proved his humanity.

Resurrection proved his divinity.

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It's important yet, but Lazarus was also resurrected, and I hope that you and I both are someday as well. It proves divinity, but does not by itself prove divinity of Jesus. There is more going on here. – Joel Coehoorn Sep 9 '11 at 21:05
Here is a article about the two types of resurrection. I'm talking about Jesus resurrection into glory and immortality not of the resurrection that we find in the old testament where people are brought back from the dead, but ultimately die again. Here is the link it is a bit long to quote on a comment letusreason.org/Biblexp101.htm – Neil Meyer Sep 10 '11 at 8:37
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You are nothing

You have been created for Christ, a gift from the Father to the Son. And you have turned your back on your creator and become His enemy. You would rather love this world and everything in it then even show respect to your creator.

James 4:4 NIV

You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

You are a filthy. You drink down iniquity like it was water. Spitting your filthy language at every passer by. You stink of iniquity like one who has just soiled himself. You are nothing.

Isaiah 64:6 NIV

All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Job 15:16 NKJV

How much less man, who is abominable and filthy, Who drinks iniquity like water!

Christ is Everything

Jesus Christ is the Word of God. From the depths of ones heart comes the language to show who that person really is. God is Love and so from the depths of God's heart, He has spoken Jesus to the World.

Colossians 1 NKJV

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

Psalm 147:5 NKJV

Great is our Lord, and mighty in power;His understanding is infinite.

You cannot begin to fathom the supremacy and the value that Christ has over all of creation. Everything that has been created does not stand up to the value of Christ. As all of creation is a mere gift from the father to the Son.

And Yet Christ Died

You being worth nothing and Christ being worth everything, and yet, Christ died for you. As a King would throw himself to wolves in order to save a slave. As the Holiest of Hollies would even consider to think of your existence, Christ has humbled Himself and was lead to the cross to die for a filthy people.

Hebrews 10:12 KJV

But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,

You were on a path to destruction, having stored up Gods wrath for yourself on the day of judgement. Yet Christ died for you. He took your law-place and stands at the foot of God being subjected to all of the curses and all of the damnation and all of the full wrath of God. For you. An unclean man.

Christ died and was subjected to the punishment that you were doomed to receive. He shed tears of blood knowing the kind of wrath that He was to bear on your behalf.

..And yet you continue to sin, as if Christ died in vain, as if what Christ did was worth nothing. As if you had a chance to discharge the wrath of God yourself.

You are worth nothing, but Christ stood under the pillar of God and was crushed in your place.

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Thank you for taking the time for this answer. You already know where my beliefs lie, but I'm pretty sure that this question has occurred to many many Christians, so I hope the answer is useful for them (more than for me). – Marc Gravell Sep 8 '11 at 15:40
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@MarcGravell, I understand and appreciate the question. I always answer my questions as if I'm talking to the whole world. Honestly I didn't even look to see that you were the one who posted it :) – Jonathon Byrd Sep 8 '11 at 15:43
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It is significant because He personally took the punishment you deserved. Suppose He just waved his hand and said, "be forgiven." If that could have worked (it could not, because sin absolutely must be punished - Ezekiel 18:4), it would have made the whole affair a bit less personal. No,

Jesus paid it all
All to Him I owe

Sin had left a crimson stain
He washed it white as snow

Isa 53:5-6 KJV 5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Not only that, but consider this:

Isa 53:10 KJV Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him;

That is a concept I find difficult to understand. Yet, apparently God the Father understood that in order to communicate His love for the sinner (Romans 5:8), this Sacrifice was the only way. Though it cost Him so much, He was happy to do it.

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God is holy, God is perfect, and will not suffer to be associated with sin (imperfection), in any form. This is something that is hard to express accurately, but is at the core of what happened: sin must be paid for, and the price is death, or, more accurately, complete and final separation from God. Doing good does not make up for the sin (bad) that is done.

You have sinned, and someone has to die for it. Your body will die anyway, whether you sin or not, and because you have sinned you would be an imperfect sacrifice. You're own death isn't good enough to avoid the final separation from God. Without intervention, your soul will be demanded of you at judgement.

Only a completely sinless person could choose to die and intervene for you. Only an eternal being could choose to die for everyone. So Jesus Christ is the only possible sacrifice... unless you know another sinless, eternal being available to do the job.

For a perspective more directly from scripture, a careful reading of the first 6 or 8 chapters of Romans is great, and can be done in 15 minutes.

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"sin must be paid for, and the price is death, or, more accurately, complete and final separation from God." FWIW, I've never understood the concept as sin as a debt that one can "pay", particularly for someone else. Also, if the price is death as you define it, Jesus hasn't paid it, as he did not remain separated from God. – Chelonian Sep 9 '11 at 21:43
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Hebrews 9 answers your question directly. The death of Christ is required, because "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins."

For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.

When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.” In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Using a legal metaphor (and the doctrine of substitutionary atonement is nothing if not a legal metaphor), the transaction that Jesus makes is literally a blood covenant.

Because "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23), there must be a death to pay the wage of that sin.

The "blood of Christ" (and trust me, you can't have a Baptist song without the blood of Christ!) pays that wage.

The power of Christ overcomes death (1 Cor 15:54) because Jesus first died and then overcame death. Without death, there cannot be resurrection.

In short Christ's death pays the penalty. Christ's resurrection gives us power to overcome death.

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