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James 2:17 says that faith is not enough. Does that apply to salvation? Is belief (or faith) in Jesus Christ enough to be saved, or is one expected to act on that faith? If works are required for salvation, what is the threshold of that action. Does this threshold vary by denomination?

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closed as not constructive by Alypius, swasheck, Caleb Apr 6 '13 at 8:34

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Bear in mind that faith in the existence of Jesus the deity is different from believing that what he said was true, or that his death is sufficient to absolve men of their sin before God. –  TehShrike Sep 5 '11 at 0:53
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This question seems confusing as being a Christian does not mean you are saved, not even in Perseverance of the saints doctrine. Was this implied, though? The answers seem to answer the question of faith vs works, not whether believing in Jesus makes someone a Christian. In other words, I think the question header/title should be reworded. (@Daniel Sandage mentions the distinction in an answer below, now that I notice.) –  felideon Sep 9 '11 at 12:42
    
I've edited the question in hopes of making it more on-topic, and less of a voting contest. I don't think this changes the appropriateness of any of the answers. –  Flimzy Oct 28 '11 at 6:35
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So many words written with hardly a mention of repentance. –  kurosch Dec 13 '12 at 18:26
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vtc: this question is too general. It would take a book to cover all the denominational differences. The answers are good, but equally general (that is, all over the place). –  Alypius Apr 6 '13 at 2:42

11 Answers 11

up vote 33 down vote accepted

This question cuts to the core of an apparent conflict between the teachings of James and Paul. Here's some of the relevant scripture:

James 2:17-18, 24 (NIV)

17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

On the surface, it seems that James states that it is works, not faith that is the ultimate source of imparted righteousness. while Paul clearly states that works are useless and only through faith is righteousness and salvation attained.

The key is to put these writings in their proper context.

Paul in many of his writings is addressing Jewish Christians, those who came from a fairly orthodox religious background. Orthodox Judaism is highly legalistic and works-oriented, believing that salvation is achieved through strict adherence to the law. When Paul is talking about "works", he is referring to the legalistic code of Old Testament laws that continued to be a stumbling block to early Jewish Christians. And he is clear that adherence to the law is not a path to salvation. Only faith in Jesus Christ, who fulfilled the OT law with His death and resurrection, leads to salvation. Jesus' freed us from the bondage of sin as laid out in the law.

James on the other hand is addressing a different audience... he is addressing Christians who have faith in Christ and yet have taken their freedom from the law to the extreme. They are claiming that because of their faith in Jesus Christ, they have no need of any law and can behave any way they wish without fear for their salvation for their faith is sufficient.

Jesus clear on the matter of how we should live lives of faith:

John 15:5 (NIV)

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

Christ dwells in us through the Holy Spirit, and the "fruit" of the Spirit is "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance" (Galatians 5:22-23). These fruits are "works", not works that garner righteousness or salvation, but works that grow properly out of a life strongly rooted in faith.

And so you see there is no conflict between Paul and James. Paul is teaching legalistic Christians that salvation is only achieved through faith, while James is teaching Christians who use their faith to justify living sinful lives.

The proper life of faith (living branches of Christ's vine) will naturally tend towards good works (bearing fruit) and that if you don't see these works, you have to question whether their faith is authentic.

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+1 for a solid, concise answer. A good followup question for people to ask themselves given this answer might be "if I really do believe in the Jesus of the Bible, what should my actions logically be?" More study of the Bible would probably follow. –  TehShrike Sep 5 '11 at 0:50
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Love the 2nd to last paragraph –  Joel Coehoorn Sep 15 '11 at 0:50

As a Gentile, Jesus Christ saves you from what exactly? You were never given a Law to keep, so you are not guilty of violating it.

I am not guilty of breaking the French law, since I am not and never have been a French citizen.

As for the Jews, it's stated repeatedly in the Law of Moses that this law is eternal. Which means: it's eternal, not to be changed. Ever. No matter what. It cannot be replaced by believing in Jesus. Unless you assume God is schizophrenic. For example, see Leviticus 23:31 "Ye shall do no manner of work; it is a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.".

And no, linguistic gyrations such as, "Okay, I guess the law is eternal, only now it's kept through believing in Jesus" don't really work. They are not supported at all by anything in the text. It's like saying, "I don't cheat on my wife, I love her just the same, only through sleeping with my co-worker."

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I can't really tell what point you're trying to make. –  JustinY Dec 9 '12 at 5:15
    
The Law is eternal. The Law is only for Jews. The Law should be observed through dependence on God, as if it were possible any other way: 613 precepts, ain't no small task! Israel's hardening, stiff necked belief in attempting to observe it through self effort and not believing Jesus's Way (all the Law, all through the Father ) is only temporary. When the Jews finally accept Jesus's teachings, then they WILL fulfil ALL the Law, through dependence on God (Matt 23:29). God's Word has NOT failed (Rom 9:6). –  Footwasher Dec 9 '12 at 5:50
    
Yet, the Old Testament itself speaks of a new Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31). So, if the Mosaic Covenant is eternal, why the need for a new one? Even Isaiah, in the first couple of chapters, demonstrates the failure of the Mosaic Law when God finds fault with their "meaningless sacrifices". –  Narnian Dec 11 '12 at 17:12
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Judah and @Narnian: Please note neither answers nor comments are a place to debate theological points or have answer/rebuttal style discussions. Please take those kind of exchanges to Christianity Chat. –  Caleb Dec 19 '12 at 9:11
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I'd like to point out (wearing my moderator hat here) that this site is Christianity.SE. This isn't a place to bash on Christianity, it is a place for the various and sundry branches of Christianity to present their answers to specific questions. This answer is a rant against Christianity and does not represent the position of any Christian group that I know of. We don't sensor specific views as long as they are identifiable as belonging to an identifiable Christian tradition, but we do insist that answers follow cue and represent a view called for by the question. –  Caleb Dec 19 '12 at 9:11

The framework of this teaching is:

Response to Enlightenment/Realisation of God's requirements

Just as the dishonest steward realised that he needed shelter to survive after his discharge, Christians realize they need shelter to survive in the afterlife.

Shelter is available only in Christ. To follow him, one must stop following the world. There is only one God, even demons know that and tremble. They have no choice but to continue. Christians claim to know God's will, but continue to follow the World, even when they have a choice. Ordinary people know that following the world will result in destruction, if God exists, and if there is an afterlife. It is the afterlife which makes life meaningful. But they persist in following the world. Their certainty about God is not high. Their certainty that life is meaningless is higher. Also, the attraction of the world is strong. They have set their sight to make the least effort, to enjoy the maximum benefits and to avoid suffering. They are gambling on the absence of God, and His judgment for wasting His gift of life.

What would be the opinion of the world on someone who had intelligence, resources and opportunity, but avoided the path to improve, through pursuit of knowledge, to fulfil their potential as human beings, if the universally accepted idea of a fulfilled person is an educated person? The dismay at reading about the calamities that fall on ignorant people in personal, career, financial decisions makes one wish that people would become as knowledgeable as possible, with whatever ability and opportunity at hand. The idea that some people had opportunity and failed to utilise it leaves a bad taste in the mouth for those who hear of it.

What if the resources to fulfil what God planned for His children was simply a longing for vindication of trusting God for victory of justice, mercy and love, over the rampant selfishness witnessed in the wilderness, and in the secular world? The proclamation of the Gospel is exactly that, selflessness is to be rewarded, the righteous redeemed:

Luke 4:18-19 NET “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and the regaining of sight to the blind, to set free those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

Those who believe that God is the only one to be served, and not mammon, cannot serve the latter anymore. They must serve God, by giving up mammon and following Him. If their confidence is lacking, they must at least use unrighteous mammon to make friends, to ensure shelter in the afterlife.

Belief in the Gospel leads to the giving of the Spirit. The Spirit gifts faith/courage to confess Jesus is Lord. Confession leads to shelter in the Body of Christ in this life. Baptism is recognition by the Body that one is a believer in the coming of the Kingdom, acceptable in the church, and entitled to instruction in the ways of the Kingdom. Justification.

Sanctification is absorbing the teachings and obeying it, agreeing with it leading to the giving of the Spirit who gives faith to follow Christ.

That's the ordo salutis right there. Starting with the Spirit, finishing with the Spirit:

Galatians 3:1-5 NET You foolish Galatians! Who has cast a spell on you? Before your eyes Jesus Christ was vividly portrayed as crucified! The only thing I want to learn from you is this: Did you receive the Spirit by doing the works of the law or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? Although you began with the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by human effort? Have you suffered so many things for nothing? – if indeed it was for nothing. Does God then give you the Spirit and work miracles among you by your doing the works of the law or by your believing what you heard?

It is not immediate. Some are called early in the day, some late. Even while faith grows, it brings forth fruit. Uncertainty is okay, but as faith grows, so does the fruit. We may not have enough faith to give up everything to follow Jesus, but we can use unrighteous mammon to gain friends. We may not have enough faith or mammon to gain friends but we can still serve God through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Luke 17:3-10 NET Watch yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him. If he repents, forgive him. Even if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times returns to you saying, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.” The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!” So the Lord replied, “If you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you could say to this black mulberry tree, ‘Be pulled out by the roots and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you. “Would any one of you say to your slave who comes in from the field after plowing or shepherding sheep, ‘Come at once and sit down for a meal’? Won’t the master instead say to him, ‘Get my dinner ready, and make yourself ready to serve me while I eat and drink. Then you may eat and drink’? He won’t thank the slave because he did what he was told, will he? So you too, when you have done everything you were commanded to do, should say, ‘We are slaves undeserving of special praise; we have only done what was our duty.’”

Summary

Great faith leads to following Jesus.

Little faith leads to supporting His disciples with your worldly goods.

You don't need any faith to serve Him with love.

Matthew 25:41-46 NET “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did not receive me as a guest, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not give you whatever you needed?’ Then he will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.’ And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

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@Judah

Judah wrote:

As a Gentile, Jesus Christ saves you from what exactly? You were never given a Law to keep, so you are not guilty of violating it.

I am not guilty of breaking the French law, since I am not and never have been a French citizen.

Absolutely!

As for the Jews, it's stated repeatedly in the Law of Moses that this law is eternal. Which means: it's eternal, not to be changed. Ever. No matter what. It cannot be replaced by believing in Jesus. Unless you assume God is schizophrenic. For example, see Leviticus 23:31 "Ye shall do no manner of work; it is a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.".

And no, linguistic gyrations such as, "Okay, I guess the law is eternal, only now it's kept through believing in Jesus" don't really work. They are not supported at all by anything in the text. It's like saying, "I don't cheat on my wife, I love her just the same, only through sleeping with my co-worker."

No, no! All the Law must be observed, the minor points as well as the major points. They are the giants that stand between Israel and REST!

Exodus 15:26 He said, "If you listen carefully to the voice of the LORD your God and do what is right in his eyes, if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, who heals you."

Deuteronomy 28 1 If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations on earth.

Deuteronomy 11:32, Deuteronomy 19:9, Deuteronomy 28:15, Deuteronomy 28:58

Just as the giants are defeated by belief in God, the Law will be fulfilled by Israel, through belief in Meschiach.

Deuteronomy 1:30 The LORD your God, who is going before you, will fight for you, as he did for you in Egypt, before your very eyes,

Deuteronomy 3:22 Do not be afraid of them; the LORD your God himself will fight for you."

Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you."

Joshua 23:10 One of you routs a thousand, because the LORD your God fights for you, just as he promised.

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There are two kinds of faith: true faith and false faith. True faith will always produce the fruit of the Holy Spirit and will always be accompanied by compassion and benevolent work (Isaiah 58, Matthew 25). In contrast, false faith is either legalistic or complacent and devoid of any love and compassion.

True faith is God's gift to us:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Eph 2:8-9 KJV

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The answer from Catholic dogma is that you must be Baptized, you must hold the entire Catholic Faith and you must be in a State of Grace.

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439, “Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity… But it is necessary for eternal salvation that he faithfully believe also in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ...the Son of God is God and man...– This is the Catholic faith; unless each one believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.”

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I think that "through faith in the person Jesus Christ, you are saved"(eph.2:8). And faith cometh By hearing and the hearing By the word of God(rom.10:17). I think you only need act of your own will on this upon hearing the gospel. Yes you can also believe in the things that Pope said, but I think it is not necessary for salvation according to Bible. Can you clarify where do you get this ref? This is little confusing, because your ref does not epxlain how you get faith. –  laovultai May 15 at 22:20
    
@laovultai I get the reference from the Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, I am a Catholic and I do not believe in the non-Biblical heresy of faith alone. Matthew 12:36 "But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment" –  apocalypse_info_click_here May 16 at 14:13
    
@apocalypse_info_click_here.. So in order to be saved one must meet those points you made in the first sentence of your answer? –  laovultai May 17 at 19:25
    
@laovultai Yes, exactly. 1) Baptism 2) Catholic Faith 3) State of Grace –  apocalypse_info_click_here May 17 at 21:00
    
@apocalypse_info_click_here.. Are these points explained in that reference that you wrote in you answer? –  laovultai May 18 at 9:58

Truly, truly I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. John 3:3 Truly, truly I say to you, unless one is born of water and the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God John 3:5

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Welcome! How does this apply? We're looking for something more here. This is not a forum, unlike other places on the web we are looking for thorough explanations, not just a quick scripture ref and then moving on. I invite you to further expand on this. Why is this specific verse relevant to the question? –  wax eagle Nov 27 '12 at 3:54
    
Again Welcome, but as wax noted we really are looking for more here. Please do edit your answer to give an explanation of how you see these verses being applicable and note which theological tradition you speak for as well. –  Caleb Nov 27 '12 at 9:04

Pauline-Lutheran answer

According to Paulus and later Luther's doctrine, faith is enough – it's the famous Justification by faith alone. Realizing that, Luther changed from a late scholastic to a reformer. The realization is based on Romans 1:17 (NIV), which says:

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

This does not release one from doing good works. But: Good works cannot do anything regarding your salvation. That is, what makes the Pharisees thinking wrong. The Pharisees, certainly admirable persons, thought that they could obtain God's grace by following God's commandment in really each situation.

For Luther not believing to be justified by works means accepting God as the unconditional giver.1


1: "plus possit et velit dare, quam ego intelligo et peto".

Calvin's answer

Similiar statements can be found in John Calvins doctrine (Although the justification by faith is more important for Luther). In his Heidelberg Catechism the following can be read:

Q: How are your righteous in the presence of God?
A: Only by true faith in Jesus Christ.

Todays Roman-Catholic answer

Today, there's an agreement between the Lutheran, Roman Catholic and Methodist church concerning the justification. It's the "Joint Declaration On the Doctrine of Justification"

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Pertinent Bible verses

John 8:12 (ESV)
12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

Matthew 16:24-26 (ESV)
24 Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

James 2 is also important as is practically the whole book of Romans but in detail Romans 3 and 4

In my opinion a faith in Jesus is core to the accepting of Christian truths, but also the bible makes it clear that their is definitely a Christian lifestyle. A accepting of certain morals and ethics that go hand in hand with a healthy Christianity.

Your lifestyle in the end becomes your life through Christ. You do not fit Christianity to your lifestyle as I'm afraid too many people do nowadays. It has to be the other way around.

Hope that helped

Here as some more bible verses that are important to people asking if Jesus is al I need to be a Christian.

James 2:14-26 (NKJV)
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

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Allow me to adjust the question slightly.

Is salvation based upon faith/belief alone?

In order to answer this question we need to better define the word Faith. I believe that in today's society faith has been dwindled down to just belief. So much so, that when people hear the word faith that they think it just means belief.

In Hebrew the word faith is emuwn which means: trusting or to trust. In Greek faith translated is Pistis which means: assurance, the character of one who can be relied on.

  • Faith is complete assurance and trust in a person

The Bible also defines faith in Hebrews 11 and binds this word to having faith in God even when we cannot see him.

Salvation is better understood through election

Without election you have humans which are enemies of God, God haters and lovers of iniquity. Without election you have a human race that is dead in their sin. They cannot come to Christ because they neither know Him nor want to submit to Him.

John 11:43 nkjv

When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!”

How can a dead man hear the command that Jesus has given? He couldn't have unless Jesus first gave that man life, so that he could hear.

Without election we are a dead people that cannot hear the commands of God. God has elected a people before setting the foundations of this world. God says that HE calls people to Christ. Christ says that you have come to Him because you have been called by the Father.

God has first given you life, so that you may hear

Before the Father can call you, He must have first elected you and given you life so that you may hear His command and respond to it.

Matthew 22:14

“For many are called, but few are chosen.”

So you see that God has imputed life into you because you have been elected by Him.

God has given you a command, so that you may respond

He has also given you a command so that you may respond to it. He has commanded you to believe in His son whom He has sent.

John 6:29

Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

If you truly hear his command, you will respond with action!

Understand that your actions are based upon your core beliefs. If you truly, truly believe (faith) and trust (faith) and have assurance (faith) in Jesus Christ, then:

John 14:12

12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.

Then most assuredly you will do the same WORKS that Christ does. Christ is working and if you believe in Christ, you too will WORK.

What is work?

My children have a responsibility to obey me as a father, but they do not work for me. You as a child of God have a responsibility to SERVE God the Father, but no enemy of God could ever EARN childhood.

The work that Jesus did was LOVE. This is what Jesus did every day of His life, was Love His Father and His neighbors, commanding everyone, everywhere to repent of their wickedness and follow His examples of love.

1 John 4:16

And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

1 John 4:7-8

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

1 John 5:2-3

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

You are commanded to Love, have you heard and obeyed?

2 John 1:6

This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

You see that faith means much more then just believing!

Again! IF you truly believe in Jesus then you will obey him. As Jesus says here

John 18:37

“You are a king, then!” said Pilate. Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.

Have you heard Jesus and have you listened and obeyed his command? Even the demons believe that there is one God, but they do not listen to his commands.

Faith and LOVE is your Righteousness in Christ

Those people that refuse the command of God and refuse to Love other people are liars and do not know God. They will not be saved on the day of judgement. Jesus tells us that right here.

The Sheep and the Goats on the day of Judgement are judged based upon what they DID while in the flesh. Mathew 25:31-46

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Most people seem to be answering the question "Is belief in Christ all that is required to be saved?", whereas the question was "Is belief in Christ all that is required to be a Christian?". This is an important distinction, unless you believe that someone is not Christian unless they will be saved.

I agree that belief in Christ and faith in Christ are not the same thing, but I do not think that those whose faith may not be perfect should be classified as non-Christian. The word "Christian" does not deal only with belief and faith but with family, culture, and identity. In that regard, the final judgement will not be exactly the same for all those whom we consider to be Christians.

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That's a very good distinction. I suppose a good question might be "What does it mean to be a Christian?". I tend to eschew cultural Christianity as being authentic, but there are those who live lives based on the moral teachings of Christ without any real faith. Perhaps we need to distinguish big "C" Christians (those who put their faith in Christ) with little "C" christians (those who live moral codes as taught by Christians). –  Simon Gillbee Aug 23 '11 at 22:53
    
I am just going to upvote you instead of creating a new answer. This is a good distinction to be made. Technically speaking, don't Muslims 'believe' in Jesus? And although James 2:19 states that even demons believe in one God, they surely also believe in the Son of God, as per Matthew 8:29. –  felideon Sep 9 '11 at 12:47

The answer is very simple if you understand causality. 

If the cause is faith then the effect must be good works.  

Another effect of faith is justification. (Ephisans 2:8-9)

Thus justification is caused by faith not by works. However a good tree that produces bad fruit can not be called good. In the same way faith does not exist without producing good works. 

You also have to understand that belief and faith are different

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+1 to you. Its good that the distinction is made that the presence of faith produces good works! –  Footwasher Nov 27 '12 at 13:38
    
Which is why James 2:26 states, "... faith without works is dead ..." –  Wayne Werner Dec 14 '12 at 16:04
    
@Steve, Regarding your last paragraph, what differentiates what's your definition of "faith"? –  Pacerier Jul 27 at 9:20

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