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In this answer user Mike made the following statement:

For the curse they put upon themselves was later brought to pass in the actual destruction of their nation which occurred in 70 A.D. Their homeless position on the earth did not end until 1948 making the punishment so very great.

This possibly also includes the Holocaust(although not mentioned by name) because it directly resulted from the "homeless" position and happened before 1948.

Thus my question is as follows:

What Christian groups consider the destruction of the Jewish nation in 70 AD, the persecutions of the Jews due to their homeless position until the creation of Israel, discrimination of the Jews in Europe, the pogroms in Imperial Russia, the Holocaust and other misfortunes the Jews suffered from Christians a punishment of God for killing Jesus Christ?

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2  
FYI - my statement only refers to what virtually every bible scholar throughout history would say, that Israel as a nation was destroyed due to the rejection of their Messiah. I did not mean that every little, or big trouble, that each individual has suffered a long the way was. Those are your words. My words can be found in any Bible commentary on the verses I was posting. By the way, I married a wonderful Jewish girl who later converted to Christ and I love the Jewish people including my mother and father in law. My wife has the same common view I have. No drama here just regular beliefs. –  Mike Feb 16 '13 at 2:03
    
@Mike I am not interested to know about your private life, you are greatly mistaken if you think I am. To be more specific I will ask a question than brings us closer to the essence. –  Anixx Feb 16 '13 at 2:33

2 Answers 2

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Even within Christian groups there are differences among individuals.

I would say that the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 A.D. was absolutely a consequence of the corporate sin of Israel, like the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians. No difference, really. Why did God allow the Babylonians to destroy Jerusalem? Because of Israel's sin. There's no need to whitewash this, and Christians shouldn't be ashamed to state this as a fact. If anyone thinks God allowed the Romans to conquer Jerusalem because He was pleased with Israel, such a one is twisted.

During the siege of Jerusalem, there was an interval in which the Roman army under Cestius essentially retreated, giving time for the Christians (who were privy to Jesus' prophetic warning; cp. Matt. 24:16) to escape and flee before the full onslaught of the Roman army destroyed Jerusalem.

In Wars of the Jews, 2.19.7 (§540), the Jewish historian Josephus wrote,

It then happened that Cestius was not conscious either how the besieged despaired of success, nor how courageous the people were for him; and so he recalled his soldiers from the place, and by despairing of any expectation of taking it, without having received any disgrace, he retired from the city, without any reason in the world.

In Ecclesiastical History, 3.5.2-4, the Church historian Eusebius wrote,

2 For the Jews after the ascension of our Savior, in addition to their crime against him, had been devising as many plots as they could against his apostles. First Stephen was stoned to death by them, and after him James, the son of Zebedee and the brother of John, was beheaded, and finally James, the first that had obtained the episcopal seat in Jerusalem after the ascension of our Saviour, died in the manner already described. But the rest of the apostles, who had been incessantly plotted against with a view to their destruction, and had been driven out of the land of Judea, went unto all nations to preach the Gospel, relying upon the power of Christ, who had said to them, "Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in my name."

3 But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. And when those that believed in Christ had come thither from Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of Judea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at length overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men.

4 But the number of calamities which everywhere fell upon the nation at that time; the extreme misfortunes to which the inhabitants of Judea were especially subjected, the thousands of men, as well as women and children, that perished by the sword, by famine, and by other forms of death innumerable,—all these things, as well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the cities of Judea, and the excessive. sufferings endured by those that fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the general course of the whole war, as well as its particular occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and final destruction by fire,—all these things any one that wishes may find accurately described in the history written by Josephus.

He ends chapter 5, stating,

7 But passing by the particular calamities which they suffered from the attempts made upon them by the sword and by other means, I think it necessary to relate only the misfortunes which the famine caused, that those who read this work may have some means of knowing that God was not long in executing vengeance upon them for their wickedness against the Christ of God.


Read Leviticus 26 and note all the curses Israel would endure because they refused to listen to God. The curses are extremely severe. I guess many simply skim over that as though God made empty threats; He does not.

Finally, there's Deut. 18:15-19. Altough it applies to any prophet of Israel, it is also referring to the Messiah (cp. Acts 3:22, 7:37), the prophet par excellence, who would be "like Moshe." God commanded the Israelites to listen to this prophet because he spoke the words that God put in his mouth. Again, this applies to every prophet, but especially the Messiah who would be a greater prophet than Moshe (contrary to Judaism which says that he will only be "near" Moshe's prophetic degree).

But, pay particular attention to Deut. 18:19, in which it is written, "And it shall come to pass, whoever shall not listen to My words that He shall speak in My name, I will require of him." "Require" doesn't really capture the meaning of the Hebrew.

The Hebrew in this particular context essentially means "exact vengeance" (cp. Gen. 9:5; Ps. 10:4; Eze. 33:6, etc.). Ibn Ezra cited one example of this occurring. He refers to a particular prophet ("man of God") in 1 Kings 13:1 who did not listen to the word of YHVH (1 Kings 13:9). Long story short, this "man of God" --- yes, he was actually a prophet of Israel --- was riding a donkey in the way when God sent a lion to devour him. The donkey, remained unharmed. The man of God, torn to shreds.

Jesus (who was a prophet) repeatedly said that he did not speak his own words but the words of the Father. The Jewish people refused to listen to him. God the Father commanded them to listen, as it is written (Matt. 17:5), "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased; listen to Him!"

Unbelieving Jews are still under the Old Covenant, and the curses of the Law (which they acknowledged in an oath), still remain if they refuse to listen to God. It is certainly true that Jews have suffered countless calamities because of their unbelief. With that being said, it does not excuse those who murdered Jews. God will judge both. I cannot emphasize that enough. Also, do note that it is not only because they (again, not all Jews) had a hand in killing Jesus, but the prophets and other saints of God.


Addressing Anixx's question.

The answer is "no," because man is not aware of God's predeterminate purpose and will.

Regarding Jerusalem during the Babylonian captivity, God said (Jer. 34:2), "I will give this city into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall burn it with fire."

God is going to give it. It's His will, His counsel, His purpose.

Yet, Nevukhadne'tzar said (Dan. 4:30), "The king spoke and said, 'Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?" ("Babylon" would have also included Jerusalem since they had captured it and incorporated it into their kingdom.)

Nevukhadne'tzar didn't believe in the God of Israel. He conquered Jerusalem with evil intentions, not thinking He was serving the God of Israel. Accordingly, God judged him for the evil he committed.

Likewise, Vespasian, Titus, and all those of Rome who conquered Jerusalem did not believe in the God of Israel, nor did they believe they were performing His will. They did so because of the evil in their heart.

Now, you may say, "What if an individual (e.g., a Christian) does believe in the God of Israel and does believe He is performing the will of God by killing a Jew?"

Well, now we have the true Scottsman fallacy, and unfortunately, it is my response. Any Christian who murders another human being, Jew or Gentile, is going straight to Gehinnam (Gal. 5:21). Oh wait...let me make that more precise. Any individual who calls him/ herself a "Christian," yet murders another human being, is going straight to Gehinnam. Because, anyone who murders another human being is not a Christian. Christ gave a new commandment (John 15:12), "Love one another as I have loved you." He also said, "Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13). Nowhere does he advocate killing unbelievers, nor does Paul.

I understand this may not sit well with my Jewish brothers. My ancestors were killed in the Inquisition, burned alive in "autos-de-fe." Many, many of the Jews on Mi Yodeya and here have ancestors who died in the Holocaust. They may have been killed by individuals claiming to be Christians and supposing to do the will of God. What they know of Christians is likely distasteful, and I cannot blame them. I cannot heal those wounds; only God can.

History has shown that many Jews, despite knowing that so-called "Christians" killed Jews in the name of Christ, reaized that such individuals were not Christians at all and did not represent the teachings of Christ. These Jews then later became Christians, most willingly. Again, there is the unfortunate aspect of forced conversion by both Islam and Christianity. While the Qur'an may advocate forced conversions (cp. Qur'an 8:39, 9:29), the New Testament never does. After all, one of the most fundamental teachings of Christ is "forgiveness" and loving one's enemies (thanks to David Stratton and svidgen for their comments on that previous thread of mine).

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Thus it means that those who persecute Jews conduct the God's will, yes? Thanks. –  Anixx Feb 15 '13 at 23:40
    
"reaized that such individuals were not Christians at all" I think a question already appeared here whether people who claim to be Christians and commit sins remain Christians. I think the answer was positive. –  Anixx Feb 16 '13 at 1:43
    
So, X says, "I'm a Christian," and then he goes out and murders ten people." He's a Christian because he said so? I can hardly accept that. But, Anixx, I have answered and will let it rest. You're more than welcome to change your vote if a better answer comes along. God bless. –  H3br3wHamm3r81 Feb 16 '13 at 1:50
    
OK, let's ask this as a new question. –  Anixx Feb 16 '13 at 1:52
    
That's fine. I do have to get some college work done. I'll be back browsing in a little bit. –  H3br3wHamm3r81 Feb 16 '13 at 2:03

The answer is that no religious, nor theologian today accuses the Hebrews of the death of Jesus. Many years ago the Roman Catholic Church apologized for its part in spreading this idea. The Pope has said that all humans must share the blame.

As far as suffering more than others - I would consider the Russians to have suffered as much in the War - millions were killed. And In the first WW, millions of English were killed. This is not to minimize what happened to the followers of Judaism, and to deplore the way the world has treated them. Since the beginning, God has blessed them as a race. From among them have come the most gifted scientists, musicians, doctors, and artists. Thank God they are with us. We would be a poor lot without them.

An Anglican.

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